[Rhodes22-list] shroud tension jokes
Steve
rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
Fri, 23 Aug 2002 05:48:57 -0700 (PDT)
Only Michael would know of a web page like that:-)
Steve
--- Michael Meltzer <mjm@michaelmeltzer.com> wrote:
> it is, I found a web page on writing for the
> audience, one had the "standard" method vs. the
> engineer method :-) They claim it good cookies
>
> MJM
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Pihlaja
> To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 6:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] shroud tension jokes
>
>
> Michael,
>
> Sounds like chocolate chip cookies?
>
> Roger
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Meltzer
> To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 12:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] shroud tension
> jokes
>
>
> thought you would like this Recipe :-)
>
> MJM
>
>
>
> Materials:
>
>
> 1.. 532.35 cm3 gluten
> 2.. 4.9 cm3 NaHCO3
> 3.. 4.9 cm3 refined halite
> 4.. 236.6 cm3 partially hydrogenated tallow
> triglyceride
> 5.. 177.45 cm3 crystalline C12H22O11
> 6.. 177.45 cm3 unrefined C12H22O11
> 7.. 4.9 cm3 methyl ether of protocatechuic
> aldehyde
> 8.. 2.0 CaCO3 encapsulated avian
> albumen-coated protein
> 9.. 473.2 cm3 theobroma cacoa
> 10.. 236.6 cm3 de-encapsulated juglans regia
> fruits (sieve size 10)
>
> Procedure:
>
>
> To a 2-L jacketed round reactor vessel (reactor
> #1) with an overall heat transfer coefficient of
> about 100 Btu/°F-ft2-hr, add ingredients (1), (2),
> and (3) with consistent agitation. In a second 2-L
> reactor vessel (reactor #2) with a radial flow
> impeller operating at 100 rpm, add ingredients (4),
> (5), (6), and (7), processing until the mixture is
> homogenous. Add to ingredients in reactor #2,
> ingredient (8) and three volumetrically equal
> portions of the homogenous mixture in reactor #1,
> processing after each addition until the mixture is
> again homogenous. Upon completion of the previous
> step, add ingredients (9) and (10), slowly with
> constant agitation at an impeller rate of 50 rpm.
> Care must be taken at this point in the reaction to
> control any temperature rise that may be the result
> of an exothermic reaction.
>
>
> Using a screw extrude attached to a #4
> nodulizer, place 10.0 cm3 nodules of the mixture in
> ordered ranks on a 316SS sheet (30.0 cm X 60.0 cm).
> Heat in a 460°K oven for a period of time that is in
> agreement with Frank & Johnson's first order rate
> expression (see JACOS, 21, 55), or until golden
> brown.
>
>
> Once the reaction is complete, place the sheet
> on a 297°K heat-transfer table, allowing the product
> to come to thermal equilibrium with ambient
> atmospheric temperature.
>
>
> WARNING:
>
>
> These procedures are designed for trained
> processionals; don't try this at home.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Toad the Wet Sprocket
> To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 8:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] shroud tension
> jokes
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Roger,
>
> I very much appreciate the information
> you posted on the Rhodes list server. I was only
> joking around about the banana and tape measure
> remarks. I know absolutely zero about tuning a
> sailing rig, but I do know from reading the posts on
> other discussion boards that the subject is as
> heated as religion or politics. That is why I made a
> joke. I am not an engineer but I was an aircraft
> mechanic by trade and I, as I am certain that you
> do, take a perfectionist's approach to all things
> mechanical.
>
> I will try to keep my joking to a minimum
> in the future especially because it is most times
> impossible for a reader to tell when I am goofing
> around.
>
> Your later posts did help as well by
> illustrating the reasons for the higher tension on
> the forward lower shrouds. Now I have a clearer
> picture of some of the dynamics involved in rig
> tuning and along with your advice I will do my own
> trials to find settings that suit my sailing
> style/ability and conditions.
>
> Again, let me apologize for making a joke
> at your expense. I did not intend to anger you'
> especially to the point that you'd refrain from
> future postings. My joking often gets me in
> trouble, but that's just who I am.
>
> Todd
>
> P.S. What was the ambient temperature when
> you tuned your rig?? (joke) Do you still have
> your original sails and if so, do you want to sell
> them?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com
> From: "Roger Pihlaja"
> Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] shroud tension
> jokes
> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:07:16 -0400
> Dear Toad,
> First of all, I'm an engineer & I've owned my
> Rhodes 22 since the spring of 1987. Stan @ GBI will
> never be this specific with rig tuning specs. It's
> just not his nature. Early on, I purchased a Loo's
> tension gage, started doing experiments, making
> measurements, & racing my boat. The specs I gave you
> are the lowest static tension settings that yield
> the desired dynamic behavior in the sailing rig. By
> the way, totalling up the lbs of tension in the
> standing rigging doesn't tell you very much. Each
> stay is loaded individually. The ultimate tensile
> strength of those 5/32" OD, 1 X 19, 316 stainless
> steel wires is on the order of 2800 lbs. At 600 lbs
> max tension on the loaded windward upper sidestay,
> my suggested rig tension settings leave a safety
> factor of more than 4X.
> The only part of the standing wire rigging
> I've upgraded was my forestay wire to 3/16" OD,
> which has an ultimate tensile strength of about 4000
> lbs. I did this wire size upgrade when I replaced my
> OEM standard roller furler to a Harken Unit 0. 3/16"
> OD wire in the forestay is probably overkill. But,
> 3/16" OD was the largest standard size available for
> the Harken Unit 0. I had to replace the forestay
> anyway as part of the installation, there was no
> good reason not to upgrade, & it seemed like cheap
> insurance.
> The breaking strength of the wires & the
> swaged terminals are the limiting factors. The
> chainplates can hold much more than the rest of the
> rig. You could confidently lift the entire boat
> suspended from the upper side chainplates. They
> don't need to be upgraded.
> The mast compression post is only loaded to a
> small fraction of its buckling strength. Don't worry
> about it.
> Look on page 970 of the WEST Marine 2002
> Master catalog for a Loo's tension gage. You would
> need to order a Loo's model 91A or PT1.
> As I said in my post, I was trying to use the
> image of the ends of the hull bending upward like a
> "22 foot long banana" under rig stress as a "greatly
> exagerated" illustration of the effects involved.
> The real hull deflection is subtle, certainly not
> observable without precision measurement
> instruments.
> Since I suggested adjusting the length of the
> forestay in 1/2" increments to adjust your weather
> helm/lee helm balance, if you measure the forestay
> length to 1/4 of that increment, or 1/8" accuracy,
> that will be sufficient resolution. You are quite
> correct, I had too many significant figures in my
> forestay length spec. It should have read 333-5/8".
> Criticize me if you wish, but did anyone else
> give you anything but qualitative descriptions of
> rig tuning? Why don't you try my rig tuning
> procedure & see what you think?
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Toad the Wet Sprocket
> To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 3:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] shroud tension
> jokes
> Roger,
> So you have a total of 1800lbs of tension on
> all of your shrouds, not to mention the
> fore/backstay tension? Where did you come up with
> all of these figures? Are these the specs from Stan
> and the guys at GB? This all seems like quite a
> strain on the chain plates and alot of compression
> down through the mast into the hull.
> Did you replace your rigging with larger
> cables or beef up the chain plate mountings?
> Where can one buy the guage you have and a
> tape measure that measures to three decimal places?
> Is my boat supposed to bend up at the ends like a 22
> foot banana too?
> Sorry, I couldn't resist. I was in a goofy
> mood today. Honestly, where did you get these specs?
>
> Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com
> From: "Roger Pihlaja"
> Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] shroud tension
> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 07:56:38 -0400
> Jack,
> Here's a copy of the rig tuning procedure I
> use:
> The 1st thing you want to do is measure the
> length of the forestay on center
> from pin-to-pin. On my 1976, standard
> mainsail, Rhodes 22, this measurement
> is 333.625 inches. Write this number down
> because it is very important.
> If your forestay length is more than a couple
> of inches different than this,
> you might want to reset it 333.625 inches as a
> reasonable starting point.
> Now step the mast. Take the excess slack out
> of the forestay & backstays
> with the backstay adjuster. You don't want
> things real tight at this point.
> All upper & lower sidestays should be slack.
> Go to the base of the mast,
> pull a halyard taut along the mast & sight up
> the mast from the rear & from
> the side. Any deviation from a straight mast
> will show up as a gap between
> the mast & the halyard. There should be no
> observable bend or bowing in the
> mast. If there is, the mast may have been
> dropped & bent at some point or
> may have some other problem. You should call
> Stan at GBI & he will be able
> to help you work out your problem.
> I like to use a Loo's tension gage. The model
> 91 is the appropriate range
> for the Rhodes 22. Remember to always measure
> the tension at the same
> relative position on each shroud every time.
> On Dynamic Equilibrium, I
> have marked these measurement points with
> little spots of paint on the
> wire right at my eye level.
> The upper sidestays are adjusted next. Raise a
> tape measure up the mast on
> a halyard. Measure to the same point on each
> side of the boat. I like to
> use the edge of the toerail right next to the
> sidestay. Tighten the
> turnbuckles a little at a time on each side to
> adjust the upper sidestays
> until both sides are the same length +/- 1/4"
> & tensioned to approximately
> 300 lbs +/- 5%. This procedure assures the top
> of the mast is centered in
> the boat & the upper sidestays are tensioned
> equally port & starboard.
> What you do next depends upon whether your
> boat has the IMF mainsail or a
> conventional mainsail.
> On an IMF mainsail boat, I would adjust the 4
> lower sidestays so they were
> all approximately the same tension. I would
> start with approximately 200
> lbs +/- 5% on all 4 lowers. This is not a lot
> of shroud tension. Check for
> mast straightness with the halyard again. You
> want the mast to be straight
> in order for the IMF furling mechanism inside
> of it to be able to turn
> without binding &/or excessive wear on the
> bearings. Minor bending or
> bowing can be taken out with the lower
> sidestays. However, I would call
> Stan at GBI if I couldn't get the mast to
> straighten out with a difference
> of about +/- 15% on lower sidestay tension.
> My Rhodes 22 has a conventional mainsail. I
> have a very roachy fully
> battened mainsail which has been cut to
> respond to mast bend. I have my
> backstay adjuster set-up to adjust quickly
> from the cockpit with calibration
> marks on the line.
> Tighten the turnbuckles equally & a little a
> time on each side to keep
> things reasonably centered. I adjust the
> forward lower sidestays to 400 lbs
> +/- 5% of tension, and the aft lower sidestays
> to 200 lbs +/- 5% of tension.
> Then, check for mast straightness with the
> halyard. Believe it or not, the
> standard mast on the Rhodes 22 is such a stiff
> telephone pole that, at 200
> lbs differential tension on the lowers, there
> will be a barely detectable
> fore/aft bend in the mast with no sails set &
> the backstay adjuster slack.
> At 400 lbs of tension on the lower forward
> sidestays, when the backstay
> adjuster is tensioned, primarily only the
> upper half of the mast is pulled
> towards the stern. The forestay is tightened &
> the mast is bent at the same
> time. Both actions are exactly what you want
> to obtain proper sail shape in
> a high wind situation.
> Now go out sailing. On a close hauled course,
> put up enough sail to heel
> the boat over about 15-20 deg. Make certain
> the rudder blade & centerboard
> are all the way down. On my Rhodes 22, the
> above tension settings cause the
> mast to remain straight & more or less
> centered in the boat. The primary
> thing to check is the upper sidestays. On my
> Rhodes 22 with the above
> unloaded tension settings, at 15-20 deg of
> heel, the windward upper sidestay
> should have about 450 lbs tension & the
> leeward upper sidestay should have
> about 150 lbs of tension. I have my upper
> sidestays set-up such that the
> leeward upper sidestay tension drops to 0 lbs
> at about 30 degrees of heel.
> At this point, the windward upper sidestay
> will be under about 600 lbs
> tension. Note, normally the stays are set-up
> to give proper shroud tension
> & the correct amount of weather helm with full
> sail set. This tends to
> limit the weather window in which you can do
> this sort of tuning.
> When all sails are properly trimmed & the boat
> is "in the groove", there
> should only a slight amount of weather helm.
> If there is a huge weather
> helm, or neutral, or lee helm; then, you need
> to adjust the rake angle of
> the mast. If you have neutral or lee helm;
> then increase the forestay
> length. To get rid of excessive weather helm,
> shorten the forestay. The
> balance of the boat is very sensitive to this
> mast rake angle, so change it
> in increments of about 1/2" at a time. Note, a
> slight amount of weather
> helm
> is desirable because it provides feedback to
> the helmsman, thus allowing
> him to steer a better course. Excessive
> weather helm tends to tire the
> helmsman out.
> Once I'm happy, I lock the adjustment in place
> by taping the lock nuts on
> the turnbuckles. I find I only need to do this
> adjustment once. The
> Rhodes 22 is such a strongly built little boat
> that nothing ever seems to
> stretch or bend. I do check the side-to-side
> upper sidestay length at the
> beginning of every season; but, it's never
> changed in the 13+ seasons I've
> been measuring it. Trailering set-up only
> involves adjusting the lower
> sidestays since the rest are not disturbed.
> As far as rig tension settings on the trailer
> vs. off the trailer, I've
> found the
> only rig tension adjustment that significantly
> changes is the backstay
> tension.
> You can set the tension on the rest of the
> standing rigging according to the
> above procedure on the trailer. It will be
> very close to optimum when you
> get the boat in the water, certainly good
> enough to do the on-the-water
> fine tuning described above.
> FYI, I slack off on the backstay tension when
> Dynamic Equilibrium is not
> being sailed. As I mentioned above, the
> backstay adjuster has sufficient
> power to affect the shape of the hull. Greatly
> exaggerated, imagine the
> ends
> of the hull being pulled upward like a 22 foot
> long banana when the backstay
> adjuster is tight! There is no sense leaving
> the hull & rig under that kind
> of
> stress when the boat is not being sailed.
> Jack, I hope this description of rig tuning
> helps you. Good luck!
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Goldberg"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 7:47 PM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] shroud tension
> > This list has been helpful in the past, so
> I'll come to the trough of
> > knowledge to feed again.
> > I noted with interest the thread about the
> mast plate bolts coming loose
> and
> > the response with regard to the tension of
> the shrouds. My 84' has a
> > standard main. When I bought the boat this
> spring, the shrouds were very
> > loose (obout 3 inches of play from side to
> side at about 3 feet from the
> > deck. The guy I bought the boat from said
> that was OK, but now I'm
> worried.
> > Is there a spec' on how tight (or loose) the
> shrouds should be under no
> > load?
> >
> > Jack Goldberg,
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
>
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and
> print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
> >
> > _______________________________________
> > Subscribers, send mail to this address
> Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
> > To change your options or unsubscribe from
> the list click on this link
> >
>
http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> Check out our
> > FAQ pages at
> http://www.geocities.com/blew_skies/topics.html
> > http://www.sailnet.com/ -Where Sailors Get
> It! http://www.rhodes22.org
> >
> _______________________________________
> Subscribers, send mail to this address
> Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
> To change your options or unsubscribe from the
> list click on this link
>
>
http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> Check out our
> FAQ pages at
> http://www.geocities.com/blew_skies/topics.html
> http://www.sailnet.com/ -Where Sailors Get It!
> http://www.rhodes22.org
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with
> MSN Hotmail. Click Here
> _______________________________________
> Subscribers, send mail to this address
> Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org To change your options or
> unsubscribe from the list click on this link
>
http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> Check out our FAQ pages at
> http://www.geocities.com/blew_skies/topics.html
> http://www.sailnet.com/ -Where Sailors Get It!
> http://www.rhodes22.org
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with
> MSN Hotmail. Click Here
> _______________________________________
> Subscribers, send mail to this address
> Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org To change your options or
> unsubscribe from the list click on this link
>
http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> Check out our FAQ pages at
> http://www.geocities.com/blew_skies/topics.html
> http://www.sailnet.com/ -Where Sailors Get It!
> http://www.rhodes22.org
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com