[Rhodes22-list] Boat stuff

Rik Sandberg rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:58:16 -0500


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Bill and all

Excellent post Bill. I'm sure there are a lot of us, me included, who =
didn't know or had really thought about Sailnets reasons for the things =
they have done. You have probably stated most of them pretty clearly, =
except I think you forgot the last one, which was, "join our sail perks =
for 15 dollars to help support your list". I and some of the others =
have. So, now are we not only buying from them, we are paying to see =
what we can buy???

I like the idea of being able to control OUR list much better than =
having someone else do it, especially when you consider the business =
interests someone like Sailnet may be trying to protect without coming =
out and really saying as much.

Speaking of buying from Sailnet, do they ever have anything "in stock"? =
I ordered a couple of things this week, knowing that one of the items =
was "on order" at the warehouse. The other though, was shown as in stock =
in the web site. Went ahead and ordered anyway. Confirming email comes, =
now both items are "on order" Wanted the stuff before our trip to Ky =
Lake. I've got a 10 dollar bill I'd bet, that the stuff shows up about =
the first of November when I'm starting to worry about how big the =
snowballs are going to be and boating is a remote memory. That's exactly =
what happened last year when I wanted a couple of Sospenders inflatable =
pfd's.

I'm beginning to think I'm a damned fool to even care what Sailnet =
thinks

Rik
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Bill Effros=20
  To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
  Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 12:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Boat stuff


  Michael,

  There has been a subtle change in the list over the years with regard =
to who can say what.

  Initially it was kind of a free for all with the understanding that =
blatant advertising from people with no connection to the list was =
prohibited.

  Subsequently, SailNet made a rule that no one with a commercial =
interest could offer anything for sale. Suddenly list members with boats =
to sell, and even Stan, were furtively posting advice and information, =
not knowing if they had violated someone else's rule.

  Next thing we knew, SailNet purchased a small mail order supply house, =
and was using every name it had collected in the guise of providing an =
email-hosting service, as its mailing list.

  Then SailNet started to monitor the lists, filtering out attachments, =
and objecting to any text that potentially threatened their exclusive =
license to market to people on the list.

  Next SailNet sent email to everyone on the list suggesting we had an =
obligation to buy from them because they were hosting our list or else =
they might have to shut us down.

  The new list gets us back to where we were.

  Of course, Elton can send us information about what he's doing.  =
That's what this list is about, and knowing Elton, I'm sure he will find =
things that we all will want.  (He gave me some folding seats that fit =
perfectly in an R-22 that are, to this day, called "Elton's Seats" on my =
boat and are used virtually every time we go out.)=20

  Elton is right to ask permission, and we are right to grant or deny =
permission on an individual basis. I have full faith in the ability of =
the system administrator to handle the situation, just as I have full =
faith in list members to advise the system administrator if they feel he =
has handled a request badly.

  As you suggest, we all consider Stan, & Elton, and others, personal =
friends who have gone out of their way in the past to help everyone on =
the list. I welcome anything they want to post, and would gladly go out =
of my way to buy from them, and return the favors they have extended to =
me, in any way I can.

  Bill Effros

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Michael Meltzer=20
  To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
  Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Boat stuff


  I think that reasonable, I use a definition of "Know to the list and =
has been helpful in other ways" , Kind of the claicic defination for =
internet. That way is covers Stan, Elton, someone selling a boat, =
Recommending Rik for some graphic's, Rummy's rum supply, someome =
offering me a great paying job :-) etc.. Where I think I would draw the =
line is a user out of nowhere "I just brought a powerboat from this =
dealer X " crap and the stuff not resonablity retaled to us(MLM's, =
changed my life-send 5$, get rich quick, and Blatant SPAM)=20

  MJM


    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Mark Kaynor=20
    To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
    Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:06 AM
    Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Boat stuff


    I have no problem with this. Just so long as it's limited to GB and =
GB-affiliates, and we're not being deluged w/ ads.

    I'm definitely not into receiving any more unsolicited advertising =
than I already get. Heck, it's gotten so bad I can't even look at the =
floor of the grocery store or the handle of a gas pump anymore w/o =
seeing an ad. Sheesh!

    Mark Kaynor


      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: Michael Meltzer=20
      To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
      Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 12:08 AM
      Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Boat stuff


      First off I talked to Elton, he just got back from the boat show, =
His rainman legend lives :-) Days he was at the show it rained and days =
he took of from the show were sunny, Now people we are having a drought =
an all over, The odds of this being only chance are starting to sound =
like winning powerball :-)=20

      It seems he is gathering specially parts for sale at boat(he there =
anyhow :-), Like the seat cushions, LED trailer lights(like a kit for a =
triad trailer), hook on boat bumpers(the work nicely with curved hull), =
dog life vest(great for Rooney), etc. It the cute stuff that might make =
it into west next year or two. He ask if the could mention them on the =
list. He evened offend at LIST member discount :-). I think most of us =
know him, he a good guy and I have no problem with it. He also mentioned =
Stan might have some stuff he might want to post to the list. I think he =
called to make sure he would not upset the "Morals" of the list. I =
figured we are not that pure around here and told him to go for it, He =
GB family :-) I hope did not put "my foot in the mouth" and there are no =
serious objections.

      MJM

      PS. I get nothing out of it, the list of items from above is what =
I am intrested in, which I pay for, In fact most likly I think I picked =
up a headach, he will need a web site :-) 
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Bill and all</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Excellent post Bill. I'm sure there are a lot of us, =
me=20
included, who didn't know or had really thought about Sailnets reasons =
for the=20
things they have done. You have probably&nbsp;stated most of them pretty =

clearly, except I think you forgot the last one, which was, "join our =
sail perks=20
for 15 dollars to help support your list". I and some of the others=20
have.&nbsp;So, now are we not only buying from them, we are paying to =
see what=20
we can buy???</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I like the idea of being able to control OUR list =
much better=20
than having someone else do it, especially when you consider the =
business=20
interests&nbsp;someone like Sailnet&nbsp;may be trying to protect =
without coming=20
out and really saying as much.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Speaking of buying from Sailnet, do they ever have =
anything=20
"in stock"? I ordered a couple of things this week, knowing that one of =
the=20
items was "on order" at the warehouse. The other though, was shown as in =
stock=20
in the web site. Went ahead and ordered anyway. Confirming email comes, =
now both=20
items are "on order"&nbsp;Wanted the stuff before our trip to Ky Lake. =
I've got=20
a 10 dollar bill I'd bet, that the stuff shows up about the first of =
November=20
when I'm starting to worry about how big the snowballs are going to be =
and=20
boating is a remote memory. That's exactly what happened last year when =
I wanted=20
a couple of Sospenders inflatable pfd's.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'm beginning to think I'm a damned fool to even =
care what=20
Sailnet thinks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Rik</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dbill@effros.com href=3D"mailto:bill@effros.com">Bill =
Effros</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
 </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 28, =
2002 12:08=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Rhodes22-list] =
Boat=20
  stuff</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">
  <P>Michael,</P>
  <P>There has been a subtle change in the list over the years with =
regard to=20
  who can say what.</P>
  <P>Initially it was kind of a free for all with the understanding that =
blatant=20
  advertising from people with no connection to the list was =
prohibited.</P>
  <P>Subsequently, SailNet made a rule that no one with a commercial =
interest=20
  could offer anything for sale. Suddenly list members with boats to =
sell, and=20
  even Stan, were furtively posting advice and information, not knowing =
if they=20
  had violated someone else's rule.</P>
  <P>Next thing we knew, SailNet purchased a small mail order supply =
house, and=20
  was using every name it had collected in the guise of providing an=20
  email-hosting service, as its mailing list.</P>
  <P>Then SailNet started to monitor the lists, filtering out =
attachments, and=20
  objecting to any text that potentially threatened their exclusive =
license to=20
  market to people on the list.</P>
  <P>Next SailNet sent email to everyone on the list suggesting we had =
an=20
  obligation to buy from them because they were hosting our list or else =
they=20
  might have to shut us down.</P>
  <P>The new list gets us back to where we were.</P>
  <P>Of course, Elton can send us information about what he's =
doing.&nbsp;=20
  That's what this list is about, and knowing&nbsp;Elton, I'm sure he =
will find=20
  things that we all will want.&nbsp; (He gave me some folding seats=20
  that&nbsp;fit perfectly in an R-22 that are, to this day, called =
"Elton's=20
  Seats" on my boat and are&nbsp;used virtually every time we go =
out.)&nbsp;</P>
  <P>Elton is right to ask permission, and we are right to grant or deny =

  permission on an individual basis. I have full faith in the ability of =
the=20
  system administrator to handle the situation, just as I have full =
faith in=20
  list members to advise the system administrator if they feel he has =
handled a=20
  request badly.</P>
  <P>As you suggest, we all consider Stan, &amp; Elton, and others, =
personal=20
  friends who have gone out of their way in the past to help everyone on =
the=20
  list. I welcome anything they want to post, and would gladly go out of =
my way=20
  to buy from them, and return the favors they have extended to me, in =
any way I=20
  can.</P>
  <P>Bill Effros</P></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
  <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
  title=3Dmjm@michaelmeltzer.com =
href=3D"mailto:mjm@michaelmeltzer.com">Michael=20
  Meltzer</A> </DIV>
  <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
 </DIV>
  <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:35 AM</DIV>
  <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Rhodes22-list] Boat stuff</DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think that reasonable, I use a =
definition of=20
  "Know to the list and has been helpful in other ways"&nbsp;, Kind of =
the=20
  claicic defination for internet. That way is covers Stan, Elton, =
someone=20
  selling a boat, Recommending Rik for some graphic's, Rummy's rum =
supply,=20
  someome offering me a great paying job :-) etc.. Where I think I would =
draw=20
  the line is a user&nbsp;out of nowhere "I just brought a powerboat =
from this=20
  dealer X " crap and the stuff not resonablity retaled to us(MLM's, =
changed my=20
  life-send 5$, get rich quick,&nbsp;and Blatant =
SPAM)&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>MJM</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Dmark@kaynor.org href=3D"mailto:mark@kaynor.org">Mark =
Kaynor</A>=20
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 28, =
2002 10:06=20
    AM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Rhodes22-list] =
Boat=20
    stuff</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have no problem with this. Just =
so long as=20
    it's limited to GB and GB-affiliates, and we're not being deluged w/ =

    ads.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm definitely not into receiving =
any more=20
    unsolicited advertising than I already get. Heck, it's gotten so bad =
I can't=20
    even look at </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the floor of the =
grocery store=20
    or the handle of a gas pump anymore w/o seeing an ad. =
Sheesh!</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark Kaynor</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A title=3Dmjm@michaelmeltzer.com=20
      href=3D"mailto:mjm@michaelmeltzer.com">Michael Meltzer</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
      title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 28, =
2002=20
      12:08 AM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Rhodes22-list] =
Boat=20
      stuff</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First off I talked to Elton, he =
just got back=20
      from the boat show, His rainman legend lives :-) Days he was at =
the show=20
      it rained and days he took of from the show were sunny, Now people =
we are=20
      having a drought an all over, The odds of this being only chance =
are=20
      starting to sound like winning powerball :-) </FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It seems he is gathering =
specially parts for=20
      sale at boat(he there anyhow :-), Like the seat cushions, LED =
trailer=20
      lights(like a kit for a triad trailer), hook on boat bumpers(the =
work=20
      nicely with curved hull), dog life vest(great for Rooney), etc. It =
the=20
      cute stuff that might make it into west next year or two. He ask =
if the=20
      could mention them on the list. He&nbsp;evened offend at LIST =
member=20
      discount :-). I think most of us know him, he a good guy and I =
have no=20
      problem with it. He also mentioned Stan might have some stuff he =
might=20
      want to post to the list. I think he called to make sure he would =
not=20
      upset the "Morals" of the list. I figured we are not that pure =
around here=20
      and told him to go for it, He GB family :-) I hope did not put "my =
foot in=20
      the&nbsp;mouth" and there are no serious objections.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>MJM</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PS. I get nothing out of it, the =
list of=20
      items from above is what I am intrested in, which I pay for, In =
fact most=20
      likly I think I picked up a headach, he will need a web site=20
      =
:-)</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
L>

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