[Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
Rik Sandberg
racerrik@rea-alp.com
Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:37:16 -0600
Michael,
Your right, there is no doubt that there are diesels in some cars that get
phenomenal gas mileage. Guess your trying to tell Joe he should be buying a
car???? Hard to haul your leaves away or bring your stuff home from Home
Depot in a VW though.
Rik
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Meltzer" <mjm@michaelmeltzer.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
>
http://vw.autodatadirect.com/ASC/config/frameset.asp?Language=EN&Country=US&
Acode=USB30VWC031F0&model=Jetta
> (the TDI is desial)
>
> lets see:
>
> 20000/49=408
> 20000/15=1333
>
> (1333-408)*1.65=1526$
>
> MJM
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ware, Joseph W." <joseph_ware@merck.com>
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:25 AM
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
>
>
> > Ah Michael, what you are missing is right now the boat is staying in PA
with
> > me. I sail on a local lake. We travel south to the house because we
are
> > refurbishing it for retirement as well as fishing on a stinkpot. The
boat
> > will go south in 2003 or 2004. We will still be making the trip until
we
> > retire. It's not about towing, I have no problem with my durrent truck,
> > it's about the excessive miles, and when to replace the vehicle. If I
> > replace it now, I will get the diesel. If I run it into the ground, and
> > purchase a new vehicle closer to when we stop making the trip, it will
be
> > gas. It's all about when it happens.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Meltzer [mailto:mjm@michaelmeltzer.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:02 AM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
> >
> >
> > maybe I am missing something, Why not keep the boat down their?
> > you should be able to dry store for a few hundred dollar or get a slip.
your
> > milage will be cut in half towing the boat, that alone
> > should pay for it, not to mention the ware and tare;.
> >
> > MJM
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ware, Joseph W." <joseph_ware@merck.com>
> > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 8:02 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
> >
> >
> > > Great discussion, thanks. I'm from eastern Pennsylvania, and travel
220
> > > miles each way south to the eastern shore of Virginia every other
weekend.
> > > I will be doing this for another 3-5 years before I finally retire.
There
> > > in lies my dilemma. Keep my 1997 Dodge 1500, 5.9L gas truck with
120,000
> > > miles on it now and add another 80,000 to 100,000. Or, dump it now
and
> > pick
> > > up the diesel. My reason for the diesel is the 80,000 to 100,000
initial
> > > miles, then the rest of the life of me or the truck after that. If I
stay
> > > with my current vehicle, I'll need to replace it in the future anyway.
So
> > > why not now, and get the diesel.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Rik Sandberg [mailto:racerrik@rea-alp.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 7:01 PM
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
> > >
> > >
> > > Doug,
> > >
> > > You are right, out in Ohio where you are the winters are a ton milder
than
> > > here. I don't know where Joe is from though or where he might go, so I
> > > brought the subject up.
> > >
> > > Far as your fuel is concerned, #2 for most of the conditions you will
get
> > > into in Ohio, will work just fine. If you feel you are going to see
temps
> > > under maybe 10 degrees or so, you might think about buying a 50/50
blend
> > of
> > > #1 and #2, or you can blend it yourself by just putting half in from
each
> > > respective pump. That's assuming that you buy fuel where they actually
> > have
> > > a pump for both grades. If you are looking at temps lower than 5 or 10
> > below
> > > 0, I would seriously consider not blending at all and going with
straight
> > #1
> > > fuel. There is a lot of paraffin in #2 diesel fuel. When it starts
getting
> > > pretty cold this paraffin will start to solidify and separate from the
> > > liquid. The paraffin solids will plug your fuel filters in short order
> > once
> > > they start forming. This is called jelling up. It generally had to be
> > pretty
> > > cold for this to happen. Probably below zero if you have pretty good
> > quality
> > > fuel. I have seen it happen at about 25 above though if you get a
batch of
> > > crappy fuel. You can probably get into those high cetane winter blend
> > fuels
> > > and stuff too if you want to. We have never messed with that stuff
though.
> > I
> > > don't know exactly what the difference is, but I do know it's
generally
> > > quite a bit more expensive
> > >
> > > OK, that's one way to freeze up, but there is also another way. Water
in
> > > your fuel can freeze almost anytime the weather is below freezing and
> > will,
> > > especially if you park your vehicle outside and shut it off for a
while.
> > Now
> > > most people think they get water in their fuel from the fuel station.
> > Well,
> > > this is possible, but, most time they actually put the water in the
tank
> > > themselves without realizing it.
> > >
> > > What one needs to understand is how condensation can put water in your
> > fuel.
> > > Our biggest problem, fuel-wise, in the winter is our heated garage. If
a
> > > driver doesn't top off his fuel tank before parking his truck in the
warm
> > > garage, there will always be water in his fuel tanks. If he does this
very
> > > many times in a row, there will be enough water in the tanks to be
picked
> > up
> > > with the fuel and make it to the fuel filters, where it WILL
eventually
> > turn
> > > to ice and freeze the filter shut. I know you probably can't look
inside
> > the
> > > fuel tank on your pickup, but on my big truck, I can. When these
trucks
> > get
> > > backed inside our shop on a cold day with a less than full tank, I can
> > pull
> > > of the fuel cap and see the frost on the inside of the tank. Sooner or
> > later
> > > this frost is going to become water and end up in the bottom of the
tank.
> > >
> > > So, it is kind of a toss up whether you are better off keeping your
truck
> > > inside so you always start with warm fuel, or keep it outside so you
don't
> > > get condensation in your tank. Given a choice I would pick inside,
being
> > > careful to keep my tanks full as much as possible and also regularly
> > adding
> > > some isopropyl alcohol (or similar fuel treatment, I have also used
> > > methanol) to the tanks to break up the water. Also, in the winter I
always
> > > carry at least one set of fuel filters with me, ALL THE TIME. You'll
> > usually
> > > only plug the primary filter, but I've seen both changed before the
truck
> > > would run again.
> > >
> > > Keep in mind here, I'm am absolutely NOT a chemist!!! Most of these
> > lessons
> > > I have just picked up at the school of hard knocks and frozen toes.
Got
> > the
> > > poor circulation in my fingers and toes to prove it. :-)
> > >
> > > Rik
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Gardner, Douglas L. (LNG-DAY)" <douglas.gardner@lexisnexis.com>
> > > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:08 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
> > >
> > >
> > > > Rik,
> > > >
> > > > I'm certainly not going to disagree with you on anything diesel!
> > > > Clearly, my truck is more than overkill for the R22. When I just
had
> > the
> > > > Rhodes, the motor in my Jeep Cherokee was just fine. The vehicle
was a
> > > > little light for my taste, but the motor was more than adequate.
> > > >
> > > > I also heard about problems with the drive train not being up to the
> > > diesel.
> > > > Like, when Dodge first introduced the Cummins as an option, there
was a
> > > > problem with farmers snapping the driveshaft because they were
pulling a
> > > > fully loaded wagon out of a field. The motor was up to it, but the
rest
> > > > couldn't handle the additional torque. I shouldn't have the
> > transmission
> > > > problem (knock on wood), as ours has the 6 speed manual tranny built
by
> > > ZF.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I haven't had the cold weather problems, at least not yet. We start
> > with
> > > a
> > > > much warmer winter than you do, though. I think that the newer
motors
> > > have
> > > > much better cold weather starting than the old ones.
> > > >
> > > > Now, about what else I should know...
> > > > Fuel types... I can never keep track of all of this. I usually just
buy
> > > > whatever diesel is in the pump. Sometimes that is at the car pumps,
but
> > > > sometimes it is at the pumps that the trucks use. What are the
> > > differences,
> > > > if any? And cold weather?
> > > > I normally use No.2 diesel, but think I'm supposed to use No.1 if
the
> > > > weather turns really cold (for Ohio). Am I correct?
> > > >
> > > > Then there is the water separator... I've always wondered what I'm
> > > supposed
> > > > to do with the water I drain out of the separator. Is there
somewhere
> > to
> > > > dispose of it at a gas station?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Rik Sandberg [mailto:racerrik@rea-alp.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:45 PM
> > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Joe,
> > > >
> > > > Seems like from what I am hearing, it isn't the engines in the
diesel
> > > > pickups that are the problem. Looks to me like the manufacturers are
> > > having
> > > > trouble building automatic transmissions that will stand up to the
> > diesel.
> > > I
> > > > know several guys that have had all three major brands of diesel
pickups
> > > and
> > > > most have had no engine trouble to speak of, but have had lots of
> > > > transmission trouble. Then there's my brother's 7.3 ford that's had
> > > trouble
> > > > with both.
> > > >
> > > > I'm with Brad a little on this. A diesel pickup is not necessarily a
> > great
> > > > thing for the more casual driver. Fuel is sometimes harder to
locate. It
> > > is
> > > > also helpful if one understands a little about diesel fuel types,
water
> > > (in
> > > > the fuel), fuel filters, cold temperatures and glow plugs. One of my
pet
> > > > peeves with my old diesel (older Chevy 6.2) was the way the glow
plugs
> > > kept
> > > > cycling on after the engine was running. I finally took them off of
> > their
> > > > sensors and hooked them up to only work manually. I had no more
problems
> > > > after that. If you should ever happen to get into any cold weather
with
> > > your
> > > > new diesel, I hope you have studied up on this subject, because you
can
> > > get
> > > > in trouble real fast with a diesel if it turns cold on you.
> > > >
> > > > A diesel pickup is really kinda overkill for pulling an R 22. If all
you
> > > are
> > > > worried about is pulling the guts out of your gas pickup because
you're
> > > > pulling your boat, this should not be a concern to you. Our boats
are
> > not
> > > a
> > > > big load to virtually any V-8 made today. Heck, my gas V-6 handles
the R
> > > 22,
> > > > no sweat. Also, it seems the fuel mileage on these new diesels isn't
> > > > necessarily so good anymore, since they started turning up the pumps
for
> > > > better horsepower numbers. Most of the new gas engines seem to pound
out
> > > > 150,000 miles or so pretty regularly these days.
> > > >
> > > > Rik
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Gardner, Douglas L. (LNG-DAY)"
<douglas.gardner@lexisnexis.com>
> > > > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 2:40 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Joe,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a Dodge 3500 with the Cummins, and love it.
> > > > > Data says that the average miles between an engine rebuild for the
> > > Cummins
> > > > > is 300K. My understanding is that the new GM diesel (Duramax) is
> > > > excellent
> > > > > as well. If I recall correctly, the Duramax is built by Isuzu
(also
> > > known
> > > > > for their diesel engines).
> > > > >
> > > > > I've heard mixed reviews on the International engines in the
Fords,
> > but
> > > > have
> > > > > no data to back it up. Like Brad, I have spoken to a lot of Ford
> > diesel
> > > > > owners who swear by them. I'm sure that all 3 motors are far
superior
> > to
> > > > > their gasoline counterparts. My guess is that opinions on them
are
> > > > largely
> > > > > influenced by brand loyalty/hatred rather than true quality
concerns.
> > > > Many
> > > > > truck owners have the "I wouldn't own a Chevy (or Ford or Dodge)
if
> > you
> > > > paid
> > > > > me" attitude. Today, my wife is anti-GM. Who knows what next year
> > will
> > > > > bring.
> > > > >
> > > > > Worth the extra cost? A friend of mine pointed out that you can
buy
> > a
> > > > LOT
> > > > > of gasoline for $4K. It really depends on how you use it. I like
to
> > > drive
> > > > a
> > > > > vehicle until it dies, so the plan on the truck was to have it for
> > many,
> > > > > many years.
> > > > >
> > > > > --Doug
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: brad haslett [mailto:flybrad@yahoo.com]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 2:39 PM
> > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe, I know of at least 20 guys at work that have Ford
> > > > > F-250's with diesels and they swear by them. Dodge
> > > > > uses a Cummins diesel which is good too. I don't know
> > > > > much about GM's because I'm just not a GM kinda guy.
> > > > > Pretty good mileage for the size and the engine is
> > > > > good for 200K. The downside is that they are
> > > > > expensive (about 4k more on the front end) and you now
> > > > > can't pull into any convenience store for fuel. I
> > > > > drove a Mercedes diesel for 200K miles and my son
> > > > > drove it another 75K. The car was getting rather tired
> > > > > but the engine was still going strong, typical of good
> > > > > diesel engines. Going down the interstate is no
> > > > > problem, just look for Ric, and follow him to fuel.
> > > > > Around town, especially in a strange city, it can
> > > > > become a major PITA to find fuel. For me personally,
> > > > > the extra front end expense and convenience has kept
> > > > > me out of returning to diesel but they do last a long,
> > > > > long time. If I did a lot of heavy towing (heavier
> > > > > than the R-22) the diesel would definately be the
> > > > > ticket. If your current truck is in good shape other
> > > > > than the miles, you might consider running it until
> > > > > the engine dies and then repower with a rebuilt Jasper
> > > > > engine. They are not cheap but Jasper's are probably
> > > > > the best rebuilt engines on the market.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brad Haslett
> > > > > "CoraShen"
> > > > > --- "Ware, Joseph W." <joseph_ware@merck.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Any one have good information on the longevity of a
> > > > > > diesel motor in a pickup
> > > > > > vs. a regular gas motor? I'm in the market and will
> > > > > > be putting on about
> > > > > > 20,000 miles a year for the next 8 years. Either I
> > > > > > run my current gas motor
> > > > > > to death, (it already has 120,000 miles on it), or I
> > > > > > pickup a new diesel
> > > > > > which I hear can handle the extra miles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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