[Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation
Michael Meltzer
rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
Tue, 10 Sep 2002 00:31:46 -0400
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_3F15_01C25861.72214450
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
it not a question of not replacing, it a question of putting it back, =
their might also be a issue what has broken loose over the year(hull =
flex), and rooted member that are not conecting do not sound good :-) =
and I wondering what a PO might have done to the compression post, I =
ment what I said, it a heavy weighted item, what do you have thier now =
and does it look original?
MJM
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Toad the Wet Sprocket=20
To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation
Michael,
Thanks for that important information!! I guess I will go slow =
and replace wood only if rotten and/or deteriorated and brace or sister =
what I can. I don't want a fold-boat. LOL
So far everything just looked wet but not in really bad shape. No =
sense making more work for myself I guess. But the floor over the bilge =
isn't structural I hope??
Not sure what you meant by:
<The weight that is incorporated in the compression post is part of =
the original Phil Rhodes spec, that why is filled, >
Todd
=20
Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com
From: "Michael Meltzer"=20
Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
To:=20
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation=20
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 23:47:25 -0400=20
tow things I should mention here,=20
The weight that is incorporated in the compression post is part of the =
original Phil Rhodes spec, that why is filled,=20
The stringers and the v-berth are thier not only for thier use but to =
strengen the hull(same for alot of the other stuff), the hull empty it =
unfit to sail, it has no strenght. maybe I missed something here but the =
boat acts as a system not like a house where you only have to watchout =
for barring walls.=20
MJM=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Toad the Wet Sprocket=20
To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 10:51 PM=20
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation=20
Denny,=20
Thanks for all of the input. Yes, my boat had a fiberglass top over =
the v-berth section. The PO must have had a water problem because he cut =
a hole in the panel to drop a bilge pump into the bow area and that is =
how I found out I had no flotation.=20
There was a plywood boxed off section against the rear bulkhead as =
deep as this area, about 18" wide and 24" front to back. There was a =
cover with a finger hole I drew up some sketches of what I want to do. I =
plan to cut the top off leaving about a 2" lip around the edge so I can =
glass a new panel over top when I am finished. I am not sure what to use =
or where to find panel material. Someone I talked to mentioned something =
called "star-board". I have to research it better first. If not I'll go =
with the 1/2" marine plywood. I am going to tear out the floor of the =
cabin, the galley area, and the stepped up area by the v-berth to check =
the integrity of the wood .....especially the area under the compression =
post/bulkhead. The post is only two 1 x 3's, and I may beef it up to =
overkill. Once I have the cabin floor out I want to drop it in the water =
once to check the hull for leaks before I go on. But there is no telling =
what else I am going to find. Then the fun begins.=20
I took a guess (I haven't measured yet) at the volume of the v-berth =
area to be about 13 cubic feet. What did you come up with and did it =
take the whole 2 gallons of pre-mix? (I know you have 4" less height) =
After thinking about your open design, it is giving me ideas to do the =
same. We will never be out more than the weekend and always use bottled =
and carried along water when ever we camp, rarely using the sink in our =
camper.=20
I am still waiting for the titling documents for my boat. Once I have =
them, I am going to bring the boat home where I can work on it more =
often. Now it's an hour away and 300 ft from an electrical outlet :^( =
Things will go much faster when I can step right from the garage/shop =
into the boat.=20
Berwick seems pretty land-locked. Are there lakes near where you live? =
Todd=20
Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com=20
From: "Dennis J Sitler"=20
Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
To:=20
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation=20
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:04:46 -0400=20
Hi Todd,=20
The foam was X-30 from Tapplastics. Look under molding and casting on =
the web site. It is interesting that you have a fiberglass panel in the =
v-berth. My boat had one too, but it was broken loose from the starboard =
side and that was how I figured there wasn't a foam block under it. It =
seems that the other boats that I have seen don't have these, but have a =
bulkhead with the foam forward and plywood on top. That is what I did =
with my boat. I removed the fiberglass insert, along with everything =
else in the cabin, except the large piece of cement ballast. I then put =
a bulkhead on each side of the cement. From the forward one I put foam =
and to the rear one I attached the seats and the floor. I put seats on =
each side as I didn't have a galley to copy or rebuild. I have some =
idea's on making a pop up sink in the end of one seat. I think my boat =
will have more of a day sailor look, but with what was left of a galley, =
and my amateur experience at boat building this is the way I went. So =
when I put the foam in I drew lines to the bow of the v-berth in a level =
plane. I then filled the open area until it was higher than the lines, =
and cut it down with a knife and a wood rasp. I then cut a section =
toward the front and epoxied a length of plywood across for something to =
fasten the 2 piece plywood top to in the front. I plan to seal the edges =
with can foam like Great Stuff and sand and paint. I have found that =
Great Stuff shrunk a little when I painted it with oil base primer =
though. I am putting a compression post from the cement block to the =
cabin top, so it will have a open look when it is done, when ever that =
may be. I have a lot more work to do as I'm sure you do, but I'm going =
sailing while I can on my small boat, or with friends, and will be =
working on the boat and trailer on rainy or winter days. I've given up =
for this year.=20
Denny,=20
1974 R22 Gossamer Wing=20
Berwick, PA=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Toad the Wet Sprocket=20
To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 10:54 PM=20
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation=20
Denny,=20
Thanks for the response. Was there a specific foam you used? You say =
it expands fast huh? How dense is it? I'll have to I could experiment =
with it first. I guess I'd have to remove the fiberglass panel over the =
V-berth area and cut any overflow down, rather than try to pour through =
a few cut-in access holes. I will probably box off a couple of small =
areas against the aft bulkhead for a water tank and second battery =
compartment as someone mentioned they had.=20
I would certainly like to see your pictures and share mine with you. =
I, as I am sure you are, am keeping a detailed journal with pictures. I =
am in the process of gutting the entire interior of the cabin. My boat =
apparently sat for a long time with the campanionway hatch partly open =
and had quite a bit of rain water inside. Luckily a battery supplying =
power to a couple of automatic bilge pumps must have run dead only =
recently. Since the tongue of the trailer was on the ground, the water =
pooled in the bow area....until some idiot (me) blocked the tongue up =
and flooded the cabin. We will have to connect and exchange mailing =
addresses.=20
Todd=20
Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com=20
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----=20
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click =
Here=20
_______________________________________ Subscribers, send mail to this =
address Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org To change your options or unsubscribe =
from the list click on this link =
http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list Check out our FAQ =
pages at http://www.geocities.com/blew_skies/topics.html =
http://www.sailnet.com/ -Where Sailors Get It! http://www.rhodes22.org=20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here
_______________________________________ Subscribers, send mail to this =
address Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org To change your options or unsubscribe =
from the list click on this link =
http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list Check out our FAQ =
pages at http://www.geocities.com/blew_skies/topics.html =
http://www.sailnet.com/ -Where Sailors Get It! http://www.rhodes22.org
------=_NextPart_000_3F15_01C25861.72214450
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>it not a question of not replacing, it =
a question=20
of putting it back, their might also be a issue what has broken loose =
over the=20
year(hull flex), and rooted member that are not conecting do not =
sound good=20
:-) and I wondering what a PO might have done to the compression =
post, I=20
ment what I said, it a heavy weighted item, what do you have thier now =
and does=20
it look original?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>MJM</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dsprocket80@hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:sprocket80@hotmail.com">Toad the=20
Wet Sprocket</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 10, =
2002 12:17=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Rhodes22-list] =
V-berth=20
flotation</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P>Michael,</P>
<P> Thanks for that important =
information!! I=20
guess I will go slow and replace wood only if rotten and/or=20
deteriorated and brace or sister what I can. I don't want a =
fold-boat. LOL<BR>So far everything just looked wet but not in really =
bad=20
shape. No sense making more work for myself I guess. But the =
floor over=20
the bilge isn't structural I hope??<BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Not sure what you meant by:</P>
<P> <The weight that is incorporated in the compression post =
is part=20
of the original Phil Rhodes spec, that why is filled, =
><BR><BR>Todd</P>
<P><BR> </P>
<DIV>Please respond to <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:sprocket80@hotmail.com">sprocket80@hotmail.com</A></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>From: "Michael Meltzer" <MJM@MICHAELMELTZER.COM>
<DIV></DIV>Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
<DIV></DIV>To: <RHODES22-LIST@RHODES22.ORG>
<DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation=20
<DIV></DIV>Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 23:47:25 -0400=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>tow things I should mention here,=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>The weight that is incorporated in the compression post is =
part of=20
the original Phil Rhodes spec, that why is filled,=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>The stringers and the v-berth are thier not only for thier =
use but=20
to strengen the hull(same for alot of the other stuff), the hull empty =
it=20
unfit to sail, it has no strenght. maybe I missed something here but =
the boat=20
acts as a system not like a house where you only have to watchout for =
barring=20
walls.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>MJM=20
<DIV></DIV>----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV></DIV>From: Toad the Wet Sprocket=20
<DIV></DIV>To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
<DIV></DIV>Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 10:51 PM=20
<DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Denny,=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Thanks for all of the input. Yes, my boat had a fiberglass =
top over=20
the v-berth section. The PO must have had a water problem because he =
cut a=20
hole in the panel to drop a bilge pump into the bow area and that is =
how I=20
found out I had no flotation.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>There was a plywood boxed off section against the rear =
bulkhead as=20
deep as this area, about 18" wide and 24" front to back. There was a =
cover=20
with a finger hole I drew up some sketches of what I want to do. I =
plan to cut=20
the top off leaving about a 2" lip around the edge so I can glass a =
new panel=20
over top when I am finished. I am not sure what to use or where to =
find panel=20
material. Someone I talked to mentioned something called "star-board". =
I have=20
to research it better first. If not I'll go with the 1/2" marine =
plywood. I am=20
going to tear out the floor of the cabin, the galley area, and the =
stepped up=20
area by the v-berth to check the integrity of the wood .....especially =
the=20
area under the compression post/bulkhead. The post is only two 1 x =
3's, and I=20
may beef it up to overkill. Once I have the cabin floor out I want to =
drop it=20
in the water once to check the hull for leaks before I go on. But =
there is no=20
telling what else I am going to find. Then the fun begins.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>I took a guess (I haven't measured yet) at the volume of =
the=20
v-berth area to be about 13 cubic feet. What did you come up with and =
did it=20
take the whole 2 gallons of pre-mix? (I know you have 4" less height) =
After=20
thinking about your open design, it is giving me ideas to do the same. =
We will=20
never be out more than the weekend and always use bottled and carried =
along=20
water when ever we camp, rarely using the sink in our camper.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>I am still waiting for the titling documents for my boat. =
Once I=20
have them, I am going to bring the boat home where I can work on it =
more=20
often. Now it's an hour away and 300 ft from an electrical outlet :^( =
Things=20
will go much faster when I can step right from the garage/shop into =
the boat.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Berwick seems pretty land-locked. Are there lakes near =
where you=20
live?=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Todd=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>From: "Dennis J Sitler"=20
<DIV></DIV>Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
<DIV></DIV>To:=20
<DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation=20
<DIV></DIV>Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:04:46 -0400=20
<DIV></DIV>Hi Todd,=20
<DIV></DIV>The foam was X-30 from Tapplastics. Look under molding and =
casting=20
on the web site. It is interesting that you have a fiberglass panel in =
the=20
v-berth. My boat had one too, but it was broken loose from the =
starboard side=20
and that was how I figured there wasn't a foam block under it. It =
seems that=20
the other boats that I have seen don't have these, but have a bulkhead =
with=20
the foam forward and plywood on top. That is what I did with my boat. =
I=20
removed the fiberglass insert, along with everything else in the =
cabin, except=20
the large piece of cement ballast. I then put a bulkhead on each side =
of the=20
cement. From the forward one I put foam and to the rear one I attached =
the=20
seats and the floor. I put seats on each side as I didn't have a =
galley to=20
copy or rebuild. I have some idea's on making a pop up sink in the end =
of one=20
seat. I think my boat will have more of a day sailor look, but with =
what was=20
left of a galley, and my amateur experience at boat building this is =
the way I=20
went. So when I put the foam in I drew lines to the bow of the v-berth =
in a=20
level plane. I then filled the open area until it was higher than the =
lines,=20
and cut it down with a knife and a wood rasp. I then cut a section =
toward the=20
front and epoxied a length of plywood across for something to fasten =
the 2=20
piece plywood top to in the front. I plan to seal the edges with can =
foam like=20
Great Stuff and sand and paint. I have found that Great Stuff shrunk a =
little=20
when I painted it with oil base primer though. I am putting a =
compression post=20
from the cement block to the cabin top, so it will have a open look =
when it is=20
done, when ever that may be. I have a lot more work to do as I'm sure =
you do,=20
but I'm going sailing while I can on my small boat, or with friends, =
and will=20
be working on the boat and trailer on rainy or winter days. I've given =
up for=20
this year.=20
<DIV></DIV>Denny,=20
<DIV></DIV>1974 R22 Gossamer Wing=20
<DIV></DIV>Berwick, PA=20
<DIV></DIV>----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV></DIV>From: Toad the Wet Sprocket=20
<DIV></DIV>To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
<DIV></DIV>Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 10:54 PM=20
<DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation=20
<DIV></DIV>Denny,=20
<DIV></DIV>Thanks for the response. Was there a specific foam you =
used? You=20
say it expands fast huh? How dense is it? I'll have to I could =
experiment with=20
it first. I guess I'd have to remove the fiberglass panel over the =
V-berth=20
area and cut any overflow down, rather than try to pour through a few =
cut-in=20
access holes. I will probably box off a couple of small areas against =
the aft=20
bulkhead for a water tank and second battery compartment as someone =
mentioned=20
they had.=20
<DIV></DIV>I would certainly like to see your pictures and share mine =
with=20
you. I, as I am sure you are, am keeping a detailed journal with =
pictures. I=20
am in the process of gutting the entire interior of the cabin. My boat =
apparently sat for a long time with the campanionway hatch partly open =
and had=20
quite a bit of rain water inside. Luckily a battery supplying power to =
a=20
couple of automatic bilge pumps must have run dead only recently. =
Since the=20
tongue of the trailer was on the ground, the water pooled in the bow=20
area....until some idiot (me) blocked the tongue up and flooded the =
cabin. We=20
will have to connect and exchange mailing addresses.=20
<DIV></DIV>Todd=20
<DIV></DIV>Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
=
<DIV></DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------=
----------------=20
<DIV></DIV>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your =
photos: Click=20
Here=20
<DIV></DIV>_______________________________________ Subscribers, send =
mail to=20
this address Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org To change your options or =
unsubscribe=20
from the list click on this link=20
http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list Check out our =
FAQ pages=20
at http://www.geocities.com/blew_skies/topics.html =
http://www.sailnet.com/=20
-Where Sailors Get It! http://www.rhodes22.org=20
<DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
<HR>
Join the world=92s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <A=20
href=3D"http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENUS/c157??PI=3D44364">Click=20
Here</A><BR>_______________________________________ Subscribers, send =
mail to=20
this address Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org To change your options or =
unsubscribe=20
from the list click on this link=20
http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list Check out our =
FAQ pages=20
at http://www.geocities.com/blew_skies/topics.html =
http://www.sailnet.com/=20
-Where Sailors Get It! =
http://www.rhodes22.org</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_3F15_01C25861.72214450--