[Rhodes22-list] trim rings
Roger Pihlaja
cen09402@centurytel.net
Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:30:07 -0500
Rummy,
Huh? My trim rings are on the outside Rummy.
Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Tonjes" <johntonjes@earthlink.net>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 3:37 PM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] trim rings
> Roger,
> Obviously the age of your hull makes your ports different than mine. The
> trim ring fits on the inside, in the cabin and simply covers up the
> hole. It's kinda what baseboard trim does in your house.
> I replaced a port two years ago because of hail damage. I can honestly
> tell you that the force of a hurricane wouldn't have removed the port.
> The procedure for removing a properly seated port is quite time
> consuming and will give you a whole new respect for marine grade
> silicone. It involves using wooden shims and sharp knives to cut the
> sealant loose. As for something coming over the bow and punching hole in
> the port, you have better odds of it putting a hole in the hull.
> The hail stones that knocked out the port were baseball size stones, not
> your everyday falling from the sky stuff.
> I commend you for being prepared, but common sense has to prevail at
> some point and time. Being out in the kind of seas you are suggesting
> that could knock a port out isn't prudent. I guess if I'm that stupid,
> and a port gets knocked out, then I deserve what comes. Time to start
> dinking and head for shore.
>
> Rummy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 1:08 PM
> To: kroposki@innova.net; The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] trim rings
>
>
> Ed,
>
> No, I have not blown out a port - yet! But, I have taken green water
> over the bow on several occasions & seen/felt the kind of forces
> involved with this rapidly moving stream of water. There is no doubt in
> my mind that it's capable of stripping those wood screws right out of
> the fiberglass & blowing the port out.
>
> Hey, Ed, we're all adults here. It's OK if anyone wants to install
> their ports in decorative mode. But, if someone is going to install or
> tolerate a built-in weak point; then, they should at least be well aware
> that their boat has a glass jaw & the circumstances which might cause it
> to fail. It's perfectly valid to manage the weakness by avoiding that
> part of the operating envelope.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kroposki" <kroposki@innova.net>
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 10:03 AM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] trim rings
>
>
> > Roger,
> > After reading this discussion and Stan's reply, I have a
> > question. I know that you sail on the Great Lakes (former home of the
> > Edmond Fitzgerald). And you said that you sail hard. The question is
>
> > this, have you blown out a port?
> > Ed K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
> > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:36 AM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
> >
> > Rummy,
> >
> > You are both right & wrong re the structural value of the trim ring.
> > If the trim ring is installed like it was originally on Marc's boat,
> > in what I will
> > call "decorative mode"; then, you are correct, it contributes no
> > structural
> > strength. However, if the trim ring is incorporated into a
> thru-bolted
> > sandwich structure as per the procedure in my FAQ; then, it becomes an
> > integral part of a structural system that is conservatively estimated
> to
> > be
> > about 100 times as strong as the port is in decorative mode. This
> extra
> > strength would only be important in heavy weather situations. If the
> > boat
> > is only sailed in protected waters & fair weather; then, the strength
> of
> > the
> > port will probably never be tested. There are enough things that can
> go
> > crooked on a cruise & I like to sail my R-22 hard. I hate to install
> > systems or gear on my boat that I have to baby & always be careful
> about
> > because of a built-in "gotcha". Of course, I also carry several
> precut
> > pieces of plywood with a rubber gasket glued on one side & thru bolts
> to
> > cover or plug a blown out port. Everybody uses their R-22 differently
> I
> > guess.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Tonjes" <johntonjes@earthlink.net>
> > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 6:49 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
> >
> >
> > > Marc,
> > > The trim ring on the interior is just that, a trim ring. It has NO
> > > structural value. Proper caulking and using the proper screws to
> > attach
> > > the port on the outside is all you need to do. The trim ring is held
> > in
> > > place with caulking.
> > >
> > > Rummy
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org
> > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Roger
> > > Pihlaja
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:14 PM
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
> > >
> > >
> > > Marc,
> > >
> > > It all depends upon how & where you intend to use your R-22. If you
> > are
> > > ever out in heavy weather & take a good solid wave into those ports
> > the
> > > way they were installed; then, they will almost certainly blow out.
> > You
> > > would be amazed how much water will get below thru even one blown
> > > out port in heavy weather! A seaworthy installation would always be
>
> > > thru bolted as per my description in the FAQ. You're a big boy &
> > > you can
> > do
> > > it however you wish, but remember you were advised on the correct
> > > way
> > to
> > > do the job.
> > >
> > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Karen Fiske / Marc Beroz" <kfiske@erols.com>
> > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 4:05 PM
> > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
> > >
> > >
> > > > Robert:
> > > > The process so far has been painless. One port had been installed
> > with
> > >
> > > > silicone & popped right off. The other was had some type of
> > > > adhesive caulking & took just a bit more time to free. Both ports
> > > > were held
> > in
> > > place
> > > > by 10 screws that went through the flange of the port into the
> > > > fiberglass skin (cabin side). These screws were about 3/4" long &
> > only
> > >
> > > > went through
> > > the
> > > > inner skin of the cabin wall. There was no foam or wood between
> > > > the inner
> > > &
> > > > outer cabin skins. There was a narrow band of caulking where the
> > port
> > > spigot
> > > > passed through the outer cabin wall.
> > > >
> > > > I removed the screws and pulled the ports out. Then I just had to
> > lift
> > >
> > > > the trim rings off (only held in place by silicone or caulk). Took
>
> > > > much more time to clean the caulking off the ports & fiberglass
> > skin
> > > > than to do anything else.
> > > >
> > > > Beckson has installation instructions at
> > > > www.beckson.com/installport.html
> > > >
> > > > Roger:
> > > > Thanks for the link. Beckson's website describes installing trim
> > rings
> > >
> > > > either with flush mount barrel nuts through the trim rings or just
>
> > > > using silicone with no fasteners through the rings. The latter is
> > > > certainly
> > > easier
> > > > & is what my prior installation was, - but it does not seem to be
> > > > a very ship-shape way to do things. At this point I'm either going
>
> > > > to use
> > > silicone
> > > > only or use silicone with pan head screws through the trim rings
> > > > & outer skin to hold them in place. I do have any wood or foam
> > > > filler between the
> > > 2
> > > > fiberglass skins & am not planning to put any in. I 'd like to
> > > > re-install the rings as GB had done it originally (without
> > fasteners)
> > > > but I wonder
> > > how
> > > > I can get a good silicone seal between the ring & fiberglass
> > > > surface doing it this way. Apparently both GB & Beckson didn't see
>
> > > > it as a problem so maybe I'm just fretting over nothing. Marc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________
> > > > Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
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> >
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>
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