[Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was (Stupid People Tricks)

[John Tonjes]

Roger,
As I have often stated, I don't have any political affiliations or
agenda's, but I will hug a tree from time to time (especially for support
if I've had one to many). I think there is still a place for the small,
light weight 2 cycle engines. As Ed stated, the newer 2 cycle's with the
electronic ignition does a much better job of burning the fuel and there
are some new 2 cycles which actually meet the California emission reg's,
which are the toughest in the nation.
I have long been a firm believer in the KISS system and the 2 cycle is
definitely a simple engine. I'm not convinced that the four strokes on the
market today are the cats meow......rather possibly the other end. Living
on a lake, at a marina, I see a lot of the problems that people are having
with these new fangled engines. I'll wait until the bugs are worked out and
let someone else have the grief with these monsters.

Rummy


> [Original Message]
> From: Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Date: 7/18/2003 6:53:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was (Stupid People Tricks)
>
> Steve & Rummy,
>
> Look, I'll be the 1st to agree that double & triple engined muscle boats
are
> one of the most glaring examples of conspicuous consumption & wretched
> excess in the world today.  But, they mostly run with 4-cycle engines &
they
> run mostly in deep water, far from shore, & their population density is
> usually pretty low.  Small 2-cycle outboards & PWC's tend to be much more
> numerous, used near shore, in estuaries, small bays, rivers, etc.  In
other
> words, the small 2-cycle marine engines tend to be emitting their
pollution
> into the waters that are the most productive & most vulnerable in terms of
> fish spawning grounds, insect larvae, crustaceans, plant life, etc.  Make
no
> mistake, there is some BAD SHIT in 2-cycle exhaust smoke & the oily film
> that these machines lay down on the water; materials like dioxins,
> tetrahydrofurans (THF's) & other materials that are biologically active at
> parts per billion concentration & also tend to bioconcentrate up the food
> chain.  Gentlemen, this is a really bad deal!
>
> Hey guys, I'm a sailor, just like you.  I'm also a professional chemical
> engineer, not some tree hugging environmentalist.  I've seen the water
> quality & biological sampling data & the supporting analysis.  These
reports
> have convinced me that marine 2-cycle engines are a problem.  Certainly
the
> small, low use, 2-cycle outboards used on our R-22's are not the biggest
> contributor to the problem; BUT, they are part of the problem & not part
of
> the solution.  It's counterproductive to point your finger at muscleboats
&
> say those folks should be banned until your own house is in order.  The
> environmental threat from 2-cycle marine engine exhaust emissions is real
&
> not going away any time soon.  Which side of this issue do you want to be
> on?
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Alm" <salm at mn.rr.com>
> To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 2:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was (Stupid People Tricks)
>
>
> > Rummy, I'm with you.  The heavy machinery is a much bigger problem.  I
> doubt
> > I burn more than fifteen gallons a season.  It's a goddang blowboat for
> > chirstsake!  If they ban 2 cycles, I would hope that they would put a
cap
> on
> > it--like over 25 or something.
> > Slim
> > P.S. You're partying with the wrong people.
> >
> > On 7/17/03 6:54 PM, "John Tonjes" <johntonjes at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Roger,
> > > If 2 cycle engines are outlawed, there are going to be a lot of
unhappy
> > > loggers, tree trimmers, grass maintenance compamies and homeowners who
> use
> > > them for everything from blowing leaves to mowing the lawn.
Personally,
> I
> > > would prefer to see the 1000 hp cigarette boats with blowers outlawed
> long
> > > before the 2 cycles are done in. I talked with a guy a few weeks ago
at
> a
> > > party with just such a boat. He can go in excess of 100mph on the
water.
> I
> > > didn't bother asking about fuel consumption, but he did mention he
> carried
> > > 110 gallons of high test.
> > >
> > > Rummy
> > >
> > >
> > >> [Original Message]
> > >> From: Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> > >> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >> Date: 7/17/2003 5:22:54 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was (Stupid People Tricks)
> > >>
> > >> Steve,
> > >>
> > >> Since 2-cycle engines are currently still legal to operate on most
> bodies
> > > of
> > >> water in the United States, everyone must decide for themselves what
> they
> > >> want to do re this issue.  Certainly, PWC's & large 2-cycle outboards
> > >> generate lots more pollution & waste much more fuel than the
relatively
> > >> small & infrequently used outboards on our R-22's.  I realize
replacing
> an
> > >> outboard engine is an expensive proposition.  I myself did not switch
> over
> > >> to 4-cycle engines overnight.  The 2-cycle Evinrude 6 came installed
on
> > >> Dynamic Equilibrium when the boat was purchased in 1987 & we ran with
> that
> > >> engine for 9 years.  I replaced the 2-cycle Evinrude 6 on Dynamic
> > >> Equilibrium with the 4-cycle Honda 8 in 1996.  However, in that same
> > > year, I
> > >> converted the long shaft Evinrude 6 back to a standard length shaft &
> ran
> > >> the 2-cycle engine on our 10 foot inflatable sport dingy until 2000,
> when
> > > I
> > >> purchased the 4-cycle Honda 9.9.  I finally sold the 2-cycle Evinrude
> at a
> > >> yard sale in the summer of 2001.  By that point, the Evinrude was
> getting
> > > a
> > >> little tired & looked pretty scruffy, but it still ran reasonably
well.
> > >>
> > >> The nearly 2X greater fuel consumption & more than 10X greater
exhaust
> > >> emissions issues with 2-cycle marine engines are real & well
> documented.
> > >> Their continued use does not represent good stewardship of the
planet.
> > > The
> > >> real question everyone must ask themselves is, "Do you want to be
part
> of
> > >> the problem or part of the solution?"  Long term, I think 2-cycle
> marine
> > >> engines will either be saddled with so much emissions control
> technology
> > >> that the cost, simplicity, & weight advantages over 4-cycle engines
> will
> > > go
> > >> away or the 2-cycle engine will be banned altogether.  There is
already
> a
> > >> small but steadily growing list of bodies of water wherein it is
> illegal
> > > to
> > >> operate 2-cycle marine engines.  That's something to ponder when it
> comes
> > >> time to replace your current outboard.  If you wait until 2-cycle
> engines
> > >> are outlawed; then, your current outboard won't have much resale
value.
> > >> I've already voted with my checkbook.
> > >>
> > >> Roger Pihlaja
> > >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > >> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 2:37 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was (Stupid People Tricks)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Well, Roger, I am sure you saw this coming but I like
> > >>> my little 2 cycle motor.  Pollution & all:-)
> > >>> Steve
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
> > >>>> Richard,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I can usually follow your line of reasoning; but,
> > >>>> this time I'm confused.  The discussion was about
> > >>>> the relative merits of 2-cycle vs 4-cycle marine
> > >>>> engines.  What do alcohol burning model airplane
> > >>>> engines have to do with gasoline burning marine
> > >>>> engines?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Roger Pihlaja
> > >>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >>>> __________________________________________________
> > >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > >>> www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>
> > >>>
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> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
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