[Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was (Stupid People Tricks)

Mon Jul 21 16:35:21 EDT 2003

quick question, the smallest engine they are showing is 75hp, http://www.evinrudeoutboards.com/docs/100/0_US.htm, I know Johnson
shows smaller and are you sure they are includes in the statement, btw the control they would add will add orders of magnitude to
the motor, like the under the hood, i.e  a 1669 Chevy vs spaghetti of anything today.

mjm
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was (Stupid People Tricks)

Michael,

This started with a respected member of the list suggesting that 2-stroke engines are not reliable, and other respected list
members, who share that point of view, piling on to support that opinion; whereupon respected list members with an oft-stated
differing point of view, said they were sick and tired of respected list members making untrue statements and backing them up with
phony statistics.  (The wonderful colloquialism "Dumber than a sack of hammers..." seems to resonate.)

As you know, we have had this exact same discussion many times, and it always seems to end with the 4-stroke people convincing the
newbies that they should spend upwards of $2000 on inferior engines in some sort of token environmentalism.

I am not a fanatic on this matter, and I have listened to every point of view.  I think the list does newbies a great disservice
when it allows the 4-stroke crowd to bully the rest of us into submission on this point, and from this discussion I can see that
many agree with me.

Bill

BTW -- Evinrude/Bombardier says their new e-tec 2-stroke engine technology will be available across their entire line, down to their
smallest engines.  The engines are quieter than 4-strokes, will carry an ultra-low CARB-3 rating, will be lighter in weight, and
more reliable than 4-strokes with no dealer service required for the first 3 years after purchase.

I think I'll wait to see them before running out to buy a problem prone 4-stroke.

(Boy, I sure wish the sun was out more often this summer--we usually reserve this stuff for the off-season.)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael Meltzer
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was (Stupid People Tricks)

bill you never pay for it, the 300hp engine is $11,000+- is pays to put in the pumping, computer and sensors  for a injector
system. the low end will be 4-stoke, BTW the do make diesel outboards, used most in oil service to have a common source of fuel.
Bill specking of grunge, self evaluation time, your are acting like a fanatic here, self righious, listening to none.

MJM

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was (Stupid People Tricks)

Frank,

Judging from the comments made by 4-stroke owners on the list they have not been reliable at all, and yet those owners keep
recommending them to new owners.  Then the new owners report that their brand new 4-strokes are not reliable either.

The engines weigh a ton--many are twice as heavy as my 8 hp 2-stroke--people are getting electric motor lifts because the engines
are so heavy.

Many owners originally bought the Honda's for reliability and then switched to Yamahas.

Owners run their engines at idle for long periods of time, first to get them warmed up, and then to expel all gas in the system
before shutting them down--thereby totally negating the "gas saving" fuel economy in boats that only need them for a few minutes to
get out of a slip or off a mooring.

"Light weight diesel" is an oxymoron.

Like you, I had hoped that my trusty old 2-stroke would die or get stolen so I could justify the purchase of the more up-to-date
4-stroke, but, again like you, that hasn't happened.  Now I'm glad.  My guess is that the Japanese will develop light weight, fuel
efficient, low pollution 2-strokes, but that my trusty old Tohatsu will never die.

Bill Effros

----- Original Message ----- 
From: FNuttersNY at aol.com
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was (Stupid People Tricks)

Well folks interesting engine debate.  I have a 91/2 hp evinrude "sporttwin"
in  a well on my 1973 R22 .  It came with the boat and is at least 30 yrs old.
 I  almost pulled it out thinking any thing that old and ugly is ready for
the scrap heap.  But I kept it in to give it a try but mounted a  new 3.3hp
2strk John. on a bracket as back up.  Well to my delight the old sporttwin runs
like a champ. No smoke  no mess and very smooth.  Starts on first pull. I have
a throttle setup that slides in and out from under the bench with reverse and
kill switch.  Two strokes have been reliable because the're simple plus they
are light weight.  You get a high hp to weight ratio.    But I would have
thought the new generation 4stks especially Hondas  would be superb and trouble
free.  I would want them to  befairly light as well.  Is this not so?  You have
me all wondering. Perhaps a small light weight desel job lurks on the horizon.
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