[Rhodes22-list] Catalina 22 vs. R22

Steve rhodes2282 at yahoo.com
Thu Jul 24 12:32:09 EDT 2003 

Mark
The handicapp considers a main a main.  That why a guy
with a racing full batten main will do so much better
than say a IMF main.  As for sails, the only rule I
know where you lose handicapp is if you genny goes
over 155%.  So a racing genny will do much better than
darcon.  

Yeah, the more experience the better.  A boat will
only do so much but experience will allow you to
capitalize on everyones mistakes. 
Steve


--- Mark Kaynor <mark at kaynor.org> wrote:
> Steve & Mary Lou,
> 
> We have IMF and both our main and 175 (original 1988
> sails) are pretty blown
> out. We can definitely point better w/ the new 135%
> genny, but it doesn't
> provide as much power as the 175% in lower winds -
> like we usually have on
> our lake at this time of year. Maybe we'd do better
> using the new sail and
> letting the UPS handle everything off a close reach.
> I think it'd be really
> cool to buy a basket case standard mast Rhodes 22
> and set it up specifically
> for racing, but, unfortunately, can't justify it to
> either Julie or myself.
> 
> I think skill and experience have a whole lot to do
> with it, too. Grant's a
> really good sailor - he's won the overall regatta
> several years in a row and
> often, in uncorrected time, gives a Hunter 27, an
> SR-Max, and a J22 runs for
> their money.
> 
> Granted, we're not all that experienced, but I don't
> believe old sails and
> lack of experience are the total equation. I expect
> the Portsmouth Yardstick
> folks have a reason for rating the Catalina 22 at
> 96.4 and Rhodes at 98.
> There's no mention anywhere on the US Sailing site
> of whether the Rhodes' 98
> is based on a standard main or an IMF main, but I
> would expect since it's
> listed as "Rhodes Continental", the 98 is for the
> standard rig.
> 
> BTW - we sailed w/o our main in the last race (we
> were repairing a rip) -
> Raven really flies dead downwind w/ the 175 and the
> UPS! We were passing
> everything in sight on the downwind leg. Only got
> 6th in our class and 7th
> overall, but we sure had fun - actually did better
> than we expected.
> 
> Mark
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "mltroy" <mltroy at netreach.net>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Catalina 22 vs. R22
> 
> 
> > Steve, You may have hit on the difference that
> Mark is
> > seeing: the condition of the sails. If I remember
> correctly,
> > you have a standard main? That ought make a
> difference too.
> > I don't know that we've ever paced ourselves
> against a C22
> > but I do know that our main is newer than Mark's
> and if he's
> > using that old genoa, that alone might account for
> the
> > difference in pointing ability. On the other hand
> if he has
> > the new smaller sail, c'mon Mark, you can do
> better than
> > that. ;-)
> >
> > David, where do you live? You might be able to
> find a Rhodes
> > 22 owner who would take you for a sail so you
> could make the
> > comparison yourself.
> >
> > Mary Lou
> > 1991 R22  Fretless
> > Rock Hall, MD / Ft. Washington, PA
> >
> > > David
> > > I have never had a Catalina 22 beat me or even
> come
> > > close.  I can't explain Mark's comments below. I
> have
> > > never even had a Catalina 25 beat me.  I have
> found
> > > that it usually take a boat over 26 feet to beat
> me
> > > but I only need them to make a couple mistakes
> for me
> > > to get them.
> > >
> > > The R22 has a real keel.  That make all the
> different.
> > > I have the 175% genney with a stardard main.  In
> wind
> > > over 15 knots, I just flatten that sails & the
> R22
> > > point very well.  The Catalina 22 does not carry
> the
> > > sail area that the R22 does. Sail adjustment is
> the
> > > key to differnet wind conditions.
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Mark Kaynor <mark at kaynor.org> wrote:
> > > > David,
> > > >
> > > > One of our friends has a Catalina 22. He's
> from New
> > > > Zealand (I think those
> > > > guys are born knowing how to sail). It's got a
> swing
> > > > keel, the cockpit is
> > > > smaller, and I don't particularly like the
> feel of
> > > > his helm (too stiff).
> > > > That being said, he regularly beats us if the
> wind
> > > > is above 10 knots, and we
> > > > at least usually give him a run for his money
> when
> > > > the wind is less than 10
> > > > knots. Our sailing club uses the Portsmouth
> > > > yardstick handicap for our
> > > > regattas and our boats have similar handicapsc
> -
> > > > ours is 98 and his is 96.4.
> > > >
> > > > I've never noticed him having any problem w/
> side
> > > > slip with his boat, and he
> > > > is regularly able to sail closer to the wind
> than
> > > > us. It is interesting to
> > > > note, however, that he has said several times
> that
> > > > in a few years he wants
> > > > to buy a Rhodes after sailing ours w/ us. And
> his
> > > > reasons are mostly all
> > > > those "quality and accessory features" that in
> > > > themselves wouldn't induce
> > > > you to trade. Go figure - different
> strokes....
> > > >
> > > > Mark Kaynor
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Blakey, David M.D." <DBlakey at CHKD.com>
> > > > To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:04 AM
> > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Catalina 22 vs. R22
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Okay, guys,
> > > > >
> > > > > I currently have a Catalina 22, but am
> considering
> > > > a lateral move to a
> > > > > (hopefully!) better-performing boat.  The
> R22 is
> > > > on my short list (along
> > > > > with the Precision 23).  My sailing pattern
> is
> > > > mostly just leisurely
> > > > > daysailing close to home and, frankly, the
> > > > Catalina is fine for that.  But
> > > > > on the rare occasion when I have actually
> tried to
> > > > sail somewhere, I've
> > > > been
> > > > > disappointed with my current boat's overall
> > > > performance, particularly
> > > > upwind
> > > > > performance.  She makes lots of leeway, so
> it's
> > > > hard to make headway
> > > > toward
> > > > > a given destination.  So I'm asking the
> group for
> > > > some perspective here,
> > > > > particularly those of you who are familiar
> with
> > > > both Catalinas and Rhodes.
> > > > > Does the R22 sail that much better than the
> C22?
> > > > I don't question that
> > > > > build quality and accessory features are
> superior
> > > > in the R22, but those
> > > > > things in themselves wouldn't induce me to
> trade.
> > > > I'm trying to figure
> > > > out
> > > > > if it's worth the trouble and expense of
> trading,
> > > > so any advice would be
> > > > > appreciated.  I realize this topic has
> probably
> > > > come up on the list
> > > > before,
> > > > > but I'm new to the list, so please forgive
> any
> > > > redundancy.  In the same
> > > > > vein, any thoughts on the P23?  Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > David B.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> __________________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > >
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