[Rhodes22-list] Mark's political instigation aggravated
Rik Sandberg
sanderico at earthlink.net
Fri Apr 23 11:45:47 EDT 2004
Bill,
Obviously, there are many opinions on the subject of Iraq and WMD. I can
only speak for myself. My feeling on the WMD issue is that all of the
hub-bub from the Dems that bush was lying about WMDs is just a way to
discredit him before the next election. This should be pretty obvious by
now. Note especially, Senator Kerry's quotes in that list and compare that
to what you hear from him now. I don't believe you can trust this man any
further than you could throw a bull by the tail!! Whether anyone was lying
or not, it seems that either everyone was, Dems included, OR they weren't.
This list (it seems it would be a long one) of liars/non-liars would have
to include President Bush. How convenient is it now for the Dems to all
decide that now it was only President Bush who was lying?
I would have been in favor of "dethroning" Saddam Hussein whether he had
WMD or not. He has proven himself to be an active supporter of terrorists
and has been practically daring us, for years, to put our money where our
mouth is. He was torturing and killing his citizens by the thousands and
those he wasn't were starving to death due to our sanctions and embargos
while Saddam sat, fat and happy, in his 56 palaces. Most of our actions up
to the point of the start of the war were hurting the wrong people and
doing no good at all. My only regret on this issue is that it wasn't taken
care of in 1991, when it should have been finished in the first place. I
cannot imagine the amount of human suffering this would have saved.
I keep hearing about the UN this or that. JEEZ, has anybody looked at just
who is running the UN these days??? Talk about the fox running the henhouse!!
On the Afghanistan thing; Yes, we weren't able to catch Bin Laden. I have
to admit, he is a pretty clever guy who seems to have a lot of friends
willing to help him. Does this mean we shouldn't have tried??? The man has
as much as admitted killing several thousand of our citizens and has as
much as promised to kill more when he gets another chance. At least if we
haven't been able to catch him, we have certainly made it more difficult
for him to operate. I have no doubt that we will catch him eventually. Do
the Dems have some magic plan for getting this done??? If so, I'd love to
hear it. My guess is they want to return to the policies of the Clinton
era, where he told those nasty guys how bad they were and lobbed a missile
over there once in a while. Again, it should be pretty obvious by now,
where those policies got us.
Talk is nice, when it works, and Lord knows, I would rather talk than
fight. Trouble is, if people don't believe that you will back up your words
with your big stick, sometimes they have a tendency to not take you very
seriously. This has been the case in the middle east for quite some time
now. At least 10 years for sure for Saddam Hussein. I think we have made
some believers over there now. Even Muammar Qaddafi (sp) seems to have had
an "epiphany".
I will not even attempt to debate anyone on the finer points of diplomacy
and foreign policy. All I know is what I can see. Diplomacy wasn't working
and more talk wasn't going to make the situation any better.
Rik
At 08:23 AM 4/23/2004, you wrote:
>Rick,
>
>Great quotes! I'll check them out, but I have every reason to believe
>they are accurate.
>
>The point is that the UN weapons inspectors, who were on the ground just
>prior to the start of the war, said unequivocally that they had been given
>access to everything they needed to be sure that Saddam Hussein no longer
>had WMD. The Bush administration claimed to have evidence that Saddam
>Hussein currently had WMD in staggering quantities, and they claimed to
>know exactly where it was hidden, how and where it had been made, and who
>made it.
>
>They told the world they could not trust the UN weapons inspectors with
>this information, or anyone else for that matter. It was a matter of
>national security. They said Saddam Hussein was continuing to manufacture
>this stuff, and it was urgently necessary for the world to invade Iraq to
>rid him of these weapons.
>
>The world told the Bush administration they did not believe our
>intelligence, our assessment of it, or our remedy to the problem if one
>actually existed. Bush invaded Iraq.
>
>I have the exact quotes to back up all of the above statements, and will
>publish them shortly.
>
>If you still believe Saddam Hussein had WMD in 2003, and they vanished
>without a trace despite our campaign of "shock and awe" and "decapitation"
>then you must agree that the method used by the Bush Administration to rid
>the world of this threat has failed. We still don't know where they are,
>and we still don't know who has them. If they exist, they are a greater
>threat to us now than they were when we knew where they were.
>
>Similarly with Afghanistan. As you may remember, I opposed the invasion
>of Afghanistan as well. The entire rational for that invasion was to
>capture Osama. He is still making tapes and bombing all over the
>world. We failed in the mission. Meanwhile Afghanistan has descended
>back into total anarchy--it has again become a narco-terrorist state, and
>has regained its status as the leading producer of opium in the
>world--with our help. Meanwhile Americans continue to die in that country
>for no understandable reason.
>
>If you come across more quotes of the type you posted, I would appreciate
>your sending them along. You have saved me a lot of work.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bill Effros
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rik Sandberg
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 9:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mark's political instigation aggravated
>
>
> Take a read here guys, then maybe talk about who is BSing who in
> regards to
> WMDs.
>
> Rik
> ______________________________________________________
> I ran across this recently and found it very good reading.
>
> If you really believe that President BUSH lied,THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY
> WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ AND HE TOOK US TO WAR SOLELY FOR
> HIS OIL
> BUDDIES -- The truth and nothing but the truth should be known!!!
>
> "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
> develop
> weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our
> bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
>
> "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is
> clear. We
> want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass
> destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
>
> "Iraq is a long way from [the USA], but what happens there matters a great
> deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use
> nuclear,
> chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest
> security threat we face." -Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
>
> "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times
> since 1983." -Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18,1998
>
> "We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S.
> Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if
> appropriate,air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
> effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of
> mass
> destruction programs." -Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl
> Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998
>
> "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
> destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he
> has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy
> Pelosi (D,
> CA), Dec. 16, 1998
>
> "Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
> destruction and palaces for his cronies." - Madeline Albright, Clinton
> Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
>
> "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
> programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
> continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam
> continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover
> of a
> licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will
> threaten the
> United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bush, Signed by
> Sen. Bob
> Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001
>
> "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
> threat
> to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated
> of the
> United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the
> means of
> delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
>
> "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
> weapons
> throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
>
> "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
> deter
> and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in
> power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
>
> "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and
> developing
> weapons of mass destruction."- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
>
> "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
> confident
> that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological
> weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his
> chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports
> indicate
> that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3,
> 2002
>
> "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the
> authority to
> use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe
> that a
> deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and
> grave threat to our security." -Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
>
> "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
> aggressively to
> develop nuclear weapons an d will likely have nuclear weapons within
> the next
> five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the
> progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -
> Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
>
> "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
> every
> significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
> chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
> refused to do" Rep.- Henry Waxman (D, CA) , Oct. 10, 2002
>
> "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show
> that
> Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons
> stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has
> also
> given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda
> members .. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein
> will
> continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare,
> and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary
> Clinton (D,
> NY), Oct 10, 2002
>
> "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
> Saddam
> Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity
> for the
> production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob
> Graham (D,
> FL), Dec. 8, 2002
>
> "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
> murderous
> dictator, leading an oppressive regime .. He presents a particularly
> grievous
> threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And
> now he
> is is cal culating America's response to his continued deceit and his
> consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction... So the threat of
> Saddam
> Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real - Sen. John F. Kerry (D,
> MA), Jan. 23. 2003
>
> SO NOW THE DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED, THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY
> WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HE TOOK US TO WAR FOR HIS OIL BUDDIES???
>
> So who's bullshitting who here????
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 22 2004 10:18 am, Steve wrote:
> > I still find it funny that the below comments still
> > come up. We still don't know what happen to Iraq
> > WMDs. We know he made missles that were cabible of
> > going past the UN limit. Warheads were cabable of
> > carring chemical agents. That 20+ tons of Mustard gas
> > that Libia gave up may be Irag. We are still finding
> > Jets & all other kinds of stuff hid under the sand in
> > Irag. UN thought Iraq had WMDs, Briton, US and most
> > of the free world thought Irag had them. I believe
> > the real question is not whether Iraq had WMDs but
> > WHERE are the WMDs! Sylia, Iran? Two very good
> > possibities!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > As for Nation Building, when a country such as our
> > looses 3,000 people; a President must change, policy
> > must change; to protect the people that are still
> > alive. Otherwise, the US would have had more Deaths
> > on it hands. And the President would have been blamed
> > for NOT changeing policies to protect this country.
> >
> > I had a great weekend sailing last weekend also.
> > Perfect wind, some fairly good wave action. It was
> > even white capping most of the day Saturday.
> > Steve
> >
> > --- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Ed,
> > >
> > > The answer to your questions are easy, I am just not
> > > sure why people care so
> > > much. Yes there is a sucker born every minute! It is
> > > clear that Clinton lied
> > > to cover up his sucker. The guy got caught messing
> > > around and lied about it.
> > > Not exactly uncommon in our society or from our
> > > elected officials. Please
> > > note I did not vote for Clinton and agree the guy
> > > was sleezy.
> > >
> > > On the other hand we have a sitting president that
> > > claimed while running for
> > > office that he was against Nation Building. Once
> > > elected he spread around a
> > > bunch of rumors as facts leading us into war against
> > > a nation that posed no
> > > real threat to our National Security. This pisses me
> > > off much more.
> > >
> > > Regarding the Baker's, they are clowns and are only
> > > here for us to make fun
> > > of. :-)
> > >
> > > We had an awesome weekend last week! More of the
> > > same coming this weekend. I
> > > hope someone else besides me is going sailing.
> > >
> > > Wally
> > >
> > > >From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
> > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > >
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >
> > > >To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> > >
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >
> > > >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Mark's political
> > >
> > > instigation aggravated Date: Wed,
> > >
> > > >21 Apr 2004 15:10:16 -0400
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Mark,
> > > > If you like the what she says then surely you
> > >
> > > believed Bill when he
> > >
> > > >said "I did not ................................."
> > > > What did that famous circus guy say, "one born
> > >
> > > every day and two to
> > >
> > > >take him." You have found your two. And I bet you
> > >
> > > sat in the front row of
> > >
> > > >Jim Baker's audiences.
> > > > And if Bill is as smart as Rummy's email says he
> > >
> > > is, how come he
> > >
> > > >does not know right from wrong? Or the complete
> > >
> > > definitions of everyday
> > >
> > > >terms. Why is it acceptable for him to define
> > >
> > > words to suit himself and
> > >
> > > >then all the national news media accepts his
> > >
> > > definition as correct? Is
> > >
> > > >that
> > > >intelligence or an old fashion 'con job'.
> > > > And, according to Rummy's email, Bush is not smart
> > >
> > > enough to 'con'
> > >
> > > >us :-) :-(
> > > >
> > > >~~~~~ _/) ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~
> > > >
> > > > Ed K
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > >[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > >
> > > Behalf Of Mark Kaynor
> > >
> > > >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 9:37 PM
> > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > >Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
> > >
> > > instigation aggravated
> > >
> > > >This oughtta do it. I just watched Hillary Clinton
> > >
> > > on Larry King Live. I
> > >
> > > >keep finding that I like what she has to say.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > >[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On
> > >
> > > Behalf Of Michael Meltzer
> > >
> > > >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:35 PM
> > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
> > >
> > > instigation aggravated
> > >
> > > >good point, I am not getting any, so why not bring
> > >
> > > up sex, thats different.
> > >
> > > >MJM
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Mark Kaynor" <mark at kaynor.org>
> > > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > >
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >
> > > >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:35 PM
> > > >Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
> > >
> > > instigation aggravated
> > >
> > > > > Ed, Rummy,
> > > > >
> > > > > <Yawn> <Ho hum> How about bringing up something
> > >
> > > controversial? <g>
> > >
> > > > > Mark
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On
> > >
> > > Behalf Of ed kroposki
> > >
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:41 PM
> > > > > To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'
> > > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
> > >
> > > instigation aggravated
> > >
> > > > > Rummy,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I would suggest that your data is biased.
> > >
> > > Let me change the subject
> > >
> > > >to
> > > >
> > > > > a more controversial one, Religion:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > DID YOU KNOW
> > > > >
> > > > > As you walk up the steps to the
> > > > > building which houses the
> > > > > U.S. Supreme Court you can see
> > > > > near the top of the building a row of the
> > > > > world's law givers and each one
> > > > > is facing one in the middle who
> > > > > is facing forward with a full frontal
> > > > > view - it is Moses and he is holding the Ten
> > >
> > > Commandments!
> > >
> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > >
> > > > > As you enter the Supreme Court
> > > > > courtroom, the two huge oak doors
> > > > > have the Ten Commandments engraved
> > > > > on each lower portion of each door.
> > > > >
> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > >
> > > > > As you sit inside the courtroom, you can
> > > > > see the wall, right above where the
> > > > > Supreme Court judges sit, a display of the Ten
> > >
> > > Commandments!
> > >
> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > >
> > > > > There are Bible verses etched in stone
> > > > > all over the Federal Buildings
> > > > > and Monuments in Washington, D.C.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > >
> > > > > James Madison, the fourth president,
> > > > > known as "The Father of Our Constitution"
> > > > > made the following statement
> > > > > "We have staked the whole of
> > > > > all our political institutions upon the
> > > > > capacity of mankind for self-government,
> > > > > upon the capacity of each and all of us
> > > > > to govern ourselves, to control ourselves,
> > > > > to sustain ourselves according to the Ten
> > >
> > > Commandments of God."
> > >
> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Patrick Henry, that patriot and
> > > > > Founding Father of our country said,
> > > > > "It cannot be emphasized too strongly
> > > > > or too often that this great nation was
> > > > > founded not by religionists but by Christians,
> > > > > not on religions but on the
> > > > > Gospel of Jesus Christ."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > >
> > > > > Every session of Congress begins with
> > > > > a prayer by a paid preacher, whose
> > > > > salary has been paid by the
> > > > > taxpayer since 1777.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the
> > > > > Constitution were members of
> > > > > the established orthodox churches
> > > > > in the colonies.
> > > > >
> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thomas Jefferson worried that
> > > > > the Courts would overstep their
> > > > > authority and instead of interpreting
> > > > > the law would begin making
> > > > > law....an oligarchy....the rule of few over
> > >
> > > many.
> > >
> > > > > Ed K (throwing gas on Rummy's wood fire)
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > >
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