[Rhodes22-list] Mark's political instigation aggravated

Wally Buck tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Fri Apr 23 17:35:57 EDT 2004


Rik, I agree we need to finish the job. No doubt that both sides are full of 
it.  I also agree that this is a perfect example of the pot calling the 
kettle black. I don't respect many on either side.

Previous post (from Ed I think) indicated he thought Clinton's scandals were 
worse than Bush leading us to war. I just don't get this line of thinking.

By the way how is that M15 coming along?

Wally

>From: Rik Sandberg <sanderico at earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mark's political instigation aggravated
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:04:28 -0500
>
>Wally,
>
>Excuse me, but there are many Democrats here and elsewhere that have 
>accused our President of lying about the situation with WMD in Iraq. I 
>posted those quotes, all from Democrats BTW, to show that there were plenty 
>of liars out there from both sides,,,,,or not. The Democrats all jumping up 
>to call the President a liar now is a perfect example of the pot calling 
>the kettle black.
>
>
>Whether we should have gone there or not, it seems to me, is a moot point 
>now. We are there, we need to finish the job as best we can.
>
>
>Rik
>
>
>At 09:23 AM 4/23/2004, you wrote:
>>I for one felt the attack on Iraq was wrong regardless of WMD. I agree 
>>that they had them at one time. However we don't know if they still exist 
>>or not inspite of our attack. The below quotes don't sway my opinion.
>>
>>Times are tough when the conservatives have to use quotes from the 
>>liberals to help make their case. :-)
>>
>>Wally
>>
>>>From: Rik Sandberg <sanderico at earthlink.net>
>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mark's political instigation aggravated
>>>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:44:12 -0500
>>>
>>>Take a read here guys, then maybe talk about who is BSing who in regards 
>>>to
>>>WMDs.
>>>
>>>Rik
>>>______________________________________________________
>>>I ran across this recently and found it very good reading.
>>>
>>>If you really believe that President BUSH lied,THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY
>>>WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ AND HE TOOK US TO WAR SOLELY FOR HIS 
>>>OIL
>>>BUDDIES -- The truth and nothing but the truth should be known!!!
>>>
>>>"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to 
>>>develop
>>>weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our
>>>bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
>>>
>>>"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. 
>>>We
>>>want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass
>>>destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
>>>
>>>"Iraq is a long way from [the USA], but what happens there matters a 
>>>great
>>>deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use 
>>>nuclear,
>>>chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest
>>>security threat we face." -Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
>>>
>>>"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times
>>>since 1983." -Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 
>>>18,1998
>>>
>>>"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the 
>>>U.S.
>>>Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if
>>>appropriate,air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
>>>effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of 
>>>mass
>>>destruction programs." -Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl
>>>Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998
>>>
>>>"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
>>>destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and 
>>>he
>>>has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi 
>>>(D,
>>>CA), Dec. 16, 1998
>>>
>>>"Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
>>>destruction and palaces for his cronies." - Madeline Albright, Clinton
>>>Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
>>>
>>>"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
>>>programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
>>>continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, 
>>>Saddam
>>>continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover 
>>>of a
>>>licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten 
>>>the
>>>United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. 
>>>Bob
>>>Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001
>>>
>>>"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a 
>>>threat
>>>to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of 
>>>the
>>>United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means 
>>>of
>>>delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
>>>
>>>"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical 
>>>weapons
>>>throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
>>>
>>>"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to 
>>>deter
>>>and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in
>>>power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
>>>
>>>"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and 
>>>developing
>>>weapons of mass destruction."- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
>>>
>>>"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are 
>>>confident
>>>that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological
>>>weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his
>>>chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports 
>>>indicate
>>>that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3,
>>>2002
>>>
>>>"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the 
>>>authority to
>>>use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe 
>>>that a
>>>deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and
>>>grave threat to our security." -Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
>>>
>>>"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working 
>>>aggressively to
>>>develop nuclear weapons an d will likely have nuclear weapons within the 
>>>next
>>>five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the
>>>progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." 
>>>-
>>>Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
>>>
>>>"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, 
>>>every
>>>significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy 
>>>his
>>>chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
>>>refused to do" Rep.- Henry Waxman (D, CA) , Oct. 10, 2002
>>>
>>>"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show 
>>>that
>>>Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons
>>>stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has 
>>>also
>>>given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda
>>>members .. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein 
>>>will
>>>continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical 
>>>warfare,
>>>and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton 
>>>(D,
>>>NY), Oct 10, 2002
>>>
>>>"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that 
>>>Saddam
>>>Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for 
>>>the
>>>production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob Graham 
>>>(D,
>>>FL), Dec. 8, 2002
>>>
>>>"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, 
>>>murderous
>>>dictator, leading an oppressive regime .. He presents a particularly 
>>>grievous
>>>threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now 
>>>he
>>>is is cal culating America's response to his continued deceit and his
>>>consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction... So the threat of 
>>>Saddam
>>>Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real - Sen. John F. Kerry (D,
>>>MA), Jan. 23. 2003
>>>
>>>SO NOW THE DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED, THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY
>>>WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HE TOOK US TO WAR FOR HIS OIL BUDDIES???
>>>
>>>So who's bullshitting who here????
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, Apr 22 2004 10:18 am, Steve wrote:
>>> > I still find it funny that the below comments still
>>> > come up.  We still don't know what happen to Iraq
>>> > WMDs.  We know he made missles that were cabible of
>>> > going past the UN limit.  Warheads were cabable of
>>> > carring chemical agents. That 20+ tons of Mustard gas
>>> > that Libia gave up may be Irag.  We are still finding
>>> > Jets & all other kinds of stuff hid under the sand in
>>> > Irag.  UN thought Iraq had WMDs, Briton, US and most
>>> > of the free world thought Irag had them.  I believe
>>> > the real question is not whether Iraq had WMDs but
>>> > WHERE are the WMDs!  Sylia, Iran? Two very good
>>> > possibities!!!!!!!!!!!
>>> >
>>> > As for Nation Building, when a country such as our
>>> > looses 3,000 people; a President must change, policy
>>> > must change; to protect the people that are still
>>> > alive.  Otherwise, the US would have had more Deaths
>>> > on it hands.  And the President would have been blamed
>>> > for NOT changeing policies to protect this country.
>>> >
>>> > I had a great weekend sailing last weekend also.
>>> > Perfect wind, some fairly good wave action.  It was
>>> > even white capping most of the day Saturday.
>>> > Steve
>>> >
>>> > --- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > Ed,
>>> > >
>>> > > The answer to your questions are easy, I am just not
>>> > > sure why people care so
>>> > > much. Yes there is a sucker born every minute! It is
>>> > > clear that Clinton lied
>>> > > to cover up his sucker. The guy got caught messing
>>> > > around and lied about it.
>>> > > Not exactly uncommon in our society or from our
>>> > > elected officials. Please
>>> > > note I did not vote for Clinton and agree the guy
>>> > > was sleezy.
>>> > >
>>> > > On the other hand we have a sitting president that
>>> > > claimed while running for
>>> > > office that he was against Nation Building. Once
>>> > > elected he spread around a
>>> > > bunch of rumors as facts leading us into war against
>>> > > a nation that posed no
>>> > > real threat to our National Security. This pisses me
>>> > > off much more.
>>> > >
>>> > > Regarding the Baker's, they are clowns and are only
>>> > > here for us to make fun
>>> > > of. :-)
>>> > >
>>> > > We had an awesome weekend last week! More of the
>>> > > same coming this weekend. I
>>> > > hope someone else besides me is going sailing.
>>> > >
>>> > > Wally
>>> > >
>>> > > >From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>> > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>> > >
>>> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> > >
>>> > > >To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
>>> > >
>>> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> > >
>>> > > >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Mark's political
>>> > >
>>> > > instigation aggravated Date: Wed,
>>> > >
>>> > > >21 Apr 2004 15:10:16 -0400
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >Mark,
>>> > > >   If you like the what she says then surely you
>>> > >
>>> > > believed Bill when he
>>> > >
>>> > > >said "I did not ................................."
>>> > > >   What did that famous circus guy say, "one born
>>> > >
>>> > > every day and two to
>>> > >
>>> > > >take him."  You have found your two.  And I bet you
>>> > >
>>> > > sat in the front row of
>>> > >
>>> > > >Jim Baker's audiences.
>>> > > >   And if Bill is as smart as Rummy's email says he
>>> > >
>>> > > is, how come he
>>> > >
>>> > > >does not know right from wrong?  Or the complete
>>> > >
>>> > > definitions of everyday
>>> > >
>>> > > >terms.  Why is it acceptable for him to define
>>> > >
>>> > > words to suit himself and
>>> > >
>>> > > >then all the national news media accepts his
>>> > >
>>> > > definition as correct?  Is
>>> > >
>>> > > >that
>>> > > >intelligence or an old fashion 'con job'.
>>> > > >   And, according to Rummy's email, Bush is not smart
>>> > >
>>> > > enough to 'con'
>>> > >
>>> > > >us :-) :-(
>>> > > >
>>> > > >~~~~~ _/) ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~
>>> > > >
>>> > > >                               Ed K
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >-----Original Message-----
>>> > > >From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> > > >[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
>>> > >
>>> > > Behalf Of Mark Kaynor
>>> > >
>>> > > >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 9:37 PM
>>> > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>> > > >Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
>>> > >
>>> > > instigation aggravated
>>> > >
>>> > > >This oughtta do it. I just watched Hillary Clinton
>>> > >
>>> > > on Larry King Live. I
>>> > >
>>> > > >keep finding that I like what she has to say.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >-----Original Message-----
>>> > > >From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> > > >[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On
>>> > >
>>> > > Behalf Of Michael Meltzer
>>> > >
>>> > > >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:35 PM
>>> > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>> > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
>>> > >
>>> > > instigation aggravated
>>> > >
>>> > > >good point, I am not getting any, so why not bring
>>> > >
>>> > > up sex, thats different.
>>> > >
>>> > > >MJM
>>> > > >
>>> > > >----- Original Message -----
>>> > > >From: "Mark Kaynor" <mark at kaynor.org>
>>> > > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
>>> > >
>>> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> > >
>>> > > >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:35 PM
>>> > > >Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
>>> > >
>>> > > instigation aggravated
>>> > >
>>> > > > > Ed, Rummy,
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > <Yawn> <Ho hum> How about bringing up something
>>> > >
>>> > > controversial? <g>
>>> > >
>>> > > > > Mark
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > -----Original Message-----
>>> > > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> > > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On
>>> > >
>>> > > Behalf Of ed kroposki
>>> > >
>>> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:41 PM
>>> > > > > To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'
>>> > > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
>>> > >
>>> > > instigation aggravated
>>> > >
>>> > > > > Rummy,
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >     I would suggest that your data is biased.
>>> > >
>>> > > Let me change the subject
>>> > >
>>> > > >to
>>> > > >
>>> > > > > a more controversial one, Religion:
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > DID YOU KNOW
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > As you walk up the steps to the
>>> > > > > building which houses the
>>> > > > > U.S.  Supreme Court you can see
>>> > > > > near the top of the building a row of the
>>> > > > > world's law givers and each one
>>> > > > > is facing one in the middle who
>>> > > > > is facing forward with a full frontal
>>> > > > > view - it is Moses and he is holding the Ten
>>> > >
>>> > > Commandments!
>>> > >
>>> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > As you enter the Supreme Court
>>> > > > > courtroom, the two huge oak doors
>>> > > > > have the Ten Commandments engraved
>>> > > > > on each lower portion of each door.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > As you sit inside the courtroom, you can
>>> > > > > see the wall, right above where the
>>> > > > > Supreme Court judges sit, a display of the Ten
>>> > >
>>> > > Commandments!
>>> > >
>>> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > There are Bible verses etched in stone
>>> > > > > all over the Federal Buildings
>>> > > > > and Monuments in Washington, D.C.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > James Madison, the fourth president,
>>> > > > > known as "The Father of Our Constitution"
>>> > > > > made the following statement
>>> > > > > "We have staked the whole of
>>> > > > > all our political institutions upon the
>>> > > > > capacity of mankind for self-government,
>>> > > > > upon the capacity of each and all of us
>>> > > > > to govern ourselves, to control ourselves,
>>> > > > > to sustain ourselves according to the Ten
>>> > >
>>> > > Commandments of God."
>>> > >
>>> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Patrick Henry, that patriot and
>>> > > > > Founding Father of our country said,
>>> > > > > "It cannot be emphasized too strongly
>>> > > > > or too often that this great nation was
>>> > > > > founded not by religionists but by Christians,
>>> > > > > not on religions but on the
>>> > > > > Gospel of Jesus Christ."
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Every session of Congress begins with
>>> > > > > a prayer by a paid preacher,  whose
>>> > > > > salary has been paid by the
>>> > > > > taxpayer since 1777.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the
>>> > > > > Constitution were members of
>>> > > > > the established orthodox churches
>>> > > > > in the colonies.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Thomas Jefferson worried that
>>> > > > > the Courts would overstep their
>>> > > > > authority and instead of interpreting
>>> > > > > the law would begin making
>>> > > > > law....an oligarchy....the rule of few over
>>> > >
>>> > > many.
>>> > >
>>> > > > > Ed K (throwing gas on Rummy's wood fire)
>>> > >
>>> > > __________________________________________________
>>> > >
>>> > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>> > >
>>> > > www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> > >
>>> > > __________________________________________________
>>> > >
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>>> > >
>>> > > www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> > >
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>>> > >
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>>> > >
>>> > > Type: image/gif Size:
>>> > > >5747 bytes Desc: not available
>>> > > >Url:
>>> > >
>>> > 
>>> >http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200404/21/cid_00 
>>>8701
>>> > >c343d6e7c781e06402a8c0desktop.gif
>>> > >
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