[Rhodes22-list] More Politics

Steve rhodes2282 at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 30 09:08:05 EDT 2004 

Wally
I didn't miss the point you were trying to make.  It's
just not there.  The French & Russians had no business
doing what they did.  BTW: the US is not wanting to
control the oil; we are trying to get it back into the
hands of the Iraqie.  Not ours!

As for our soliders dieing.  On an individual basis,
each & every one is a very sad thing.  But thier
deaths are for a just causes.  

ON an militery basis, last time I saw a kill ratio,
(our deaths were around 600 about a month ago)and the
enemey (when I say enemey, I mean the terrorists, not
the Iraqie people)thier deaths were around 16 or 17
thousand.  Again, from a militery standpoint, that a
28 to 1 kill ratio.  That real good in a war. Well
worth the effort that this country is paying.  And the
long term benefits of this war make it even more worth
it.
Steve

 
--- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Steve,
> 
> What is just plain wrong? Do you dispute the fact
> that no Americans were 
> getting killed when the French and Russians were
> controlling the oil? I 
> didn't expect you to agree but I did expect you to
> miss my point.
> 
> This war is about oil, the French and Russians
> wanted to control it, and so 
> did we. No oil no war, that simple.
> 
> Wally
> 
> >From: Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> >Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:08:23 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Wally
> >That just plain wrong.
> >
> >At least when the
> > > French and Russian's were on the take no
> Americans
> > > were getting killed.
> >
> >As the last great superpower: if we don't do whats
> >right; who will???????????
> >Steve
> >
> >--- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Steve,
> > >
> > > I wouldn't call Bush's taking us to war over
> false
> > > hoods a "minor lapse".
> > > Talk about understatement!
> > >
> > > I agree that the French and Russians were on the
> > > take. At least when the
> > > French and Russian's were on the take no
> Americans
> > > were getting killed. I
> > > have said all along this war is about oil and
> Paul's
> > > post supports my view
> > > point. WMD, human rights, freedom and so on all
> > > sound good but if there
> > > wasn't a drop of oil in the area the US, France,
> and
> > > Russia wouldn't give a
> > > flip.So now we are at "war " and the US controls
> the
> > > oil. I don't see how
> > > this is a big improvement.
> > >
> > > Wally
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> > > >Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:25:08 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > >Very interesting, Paul.  You know, I figured it
> was
> > > >only a matter of time before this came out.  A
> > > country
> > > >such a French putting monetary issue before the
> > > safety
> > > >of the world.  We should all get down on our
> knees
> > > &
> > > >thank God that we have our President (and a
> GREAT
> > > >President at that) & Tony Blair over in England
> > > that
> > > >was willing to take a stand for whats
> > > right!!!!!!!!!!
> > > >Where me a flag; I feel like saluting it:-)
> > > >Steve
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote:
> > > > > Forgive me if you receive this twice.  I
> > > > > accidentally left out the subject
> > > > > on the first try. - Paul
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > April 28, 2004 -- ANYONE who pines for
> genuine
> > > > > international
> > > > > multilateralism would do well to follow the
> > > bribes
> > > > > now being uncovered in
> > > > > the United Nations' Oil-for- Food scandal.
> > > > > Why did France and Russia oppose efforts to
> > > topple
> > > > > Saddam Hussein's regime?
> > > > > And why did they press constantly,
> throughout
> > > the
> > > > > '90s, for an expansion of
> > > > > Iraqi oil sales? Was it their empathy for
> the
> > > > > starving children of that
> > > > > impoverished nation? Their desire to stop
> the
> > > United
> > > > > States from arrogantly
> > > > > imposing its vision upon the Middle East?
> > > > >
> > > > > It now looks like they it was simply because
> > > they
> > > > > were on the take. Saddam
> > > > > was their cash cow. If President Bush has
> > > suffered
> > > > > some discredit over his
> > > > > apparently false - but not disingenuous -
> claims
> > > of
> > > > > Iraqi weapons of mass
> > > > > destruction, the lapse is minor compared to
> the
> > > > > outright personal
> > > > > selfishness and criminality that appears to
> have
> > > > > motivated many of those
> > > > > who opposed his efforts to rid the world of
> one
> > > of
> > > > > its worst dictators.
> > > > >
> > > > > Throughout the '90s, France and Russia
> badgered
> > > the
> > > > > United States and
> > > > > Britain to increase Iraqi oil production.
> > > President
> > > > > Bill Clinton and Prime
> > > > > Minister Tony Blair fought them at each
> step,
> > > but
> > > > > then reluctantly gave
> > > > > way. First Iraq was allowed to sell 500,000
> > > barrels
> > > > > daily. Then, on Franco-
> > > > > Russian insistence, it was raised to 1
> million,
> > > then
> > > > > to 2 million and,
> > > > > finally, to 3 million barrels a day.
> > > > >
> > > > > Each time, America and Britain - the nations
> now
> > > > > accused of coveting Iraqi
> > > > > oil - resisted the increases in Iraqi
> production
> > > and
> > > > > urged tighter controls
> > > > > over the program. Each time, the French and
> the
> > > > > Russians prattled on about
> > > > > the rights of Iraqi sovereignty and the need
> to
> > > feed
> > > > > the children.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now we know why the French and Russians were
> so
> > > > > insistent. Iraqi government
> > > > > documents (leaked to the Baghdad newspaper
> Al
> > > Mada)
> > > > > list at least 270
> > > > > individuals and entities who got vouchers
> > > allowing
> > > > > them to sell Iraqi oil -
> > > > > and to keep much of the money. These
> vouchers,
> > > and
> > > > > the promise of instant
> > > > > great wealth they carried with them, bought
> > > vital
> > > > > support in the United
> > > > > Nations to let Saddam stay in power.
> > > > >
> > > > > The list of those receiving these bribes
> > > includes
> > > > > France's former French
> > > > > Interior Minister Charles Pasqua (who's a
> leader
> > > of
> > > > > Chirac's party) and
> > > > > Patrick Maugein, the head of the French Oil
> firm
> > > > > Soco International.
> > > > > France's former U.N. ambassador,
> Jean-Bernard
> > > > > Merimee, got vouchers to sell
> > > > > 11 million barrels.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In Russia, the payoff chain reached right
> into
> > > the
> > > > > "office of the Russian
> > > > > president." President Vladimir Putin's Peace
> and
> > > > > Unity Party also got
> > > > > vouchers, as did the Soviet-era Prime
> Minister
> > > > > Nikolai Ryzhkov and the
> > > > > Russian Orthodox Church. Nationalist leader
> > > Vladimir
> > > > > Zhirinovsky shared in
> > > > > the largesse.
> > > > >
> > > > > Not to be left behind, the Rev. Jean Marie
> > > Benjamin
> > > > > of the Vatican got the
> > > > > rights to sell 4.5 million barrels as
> recompense
> > > for
> > > > > setting up a meeting
> > > > > between Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz
> and
> > > the
> > > > > pope.
> > > > >
> > > > > Indeed, the list indicates that Benon Sevan,
> the
> > > > > United Nations official in
> > > > > charge of the Oil-for-Food program. received
> > > > > vouchers. He denies the
> > > > > charge, but has decided to retire next month
> > > anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At the start of the Oil-for-Food program,
> > > America
> > > > > and Britain proposed that
> > > > > the money flow only to accounts entirely
> > > controlled
> > > > > by the United Nations.
> > > > > Soon this standard was lowered to include
> > > accounts
> > > > > not actually controlled
> > > > > by the United Nations, but only monitored by
> it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then-Sen. Frank Murkowski (R-Alaska) warned
> that
> > > > > "oil is fungible" and
> > > > > noted that once Iraq was allowed to pump and
> > > sell
> > > > > it, Saddam could sell all
> > > > > he wanted outside of officially sanctioned
> > > channels
> > > > > and nobody could tell
> > > > > which black liquid was legal and which not.
> But
> > > > > nobody imagined that there
> > > > > were actual bribes going to specific French,
> > > Russian
> > > > > and U.N. officials as
> > > > > part of the program.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now it appears that Secretary-General Kofi
> > > Annan's
> > > > > sanctimonious posturing
> > > > > may have concealed oil bribes which reached
> high
> > > up
> > > > > in the ranks of the
> > > > > U.N. organization itself.
> > > > >
> > > > > The defect of international coalitions is
> that
> > > they
> > > > > include the just and
> > > > > the unjust, the bribed and the honest, the
> > > > > democratic and the autocratic.
> > > > > And their members cannot be trusted equally.
> The
> > > > > group that stood up and
> > > > > backed the invasion of Iraq was nicknamed
> "the
> > > > > Coalition of the Willing."
> > > > > Now it appears it was also "the Coalition of
> the
> > > > > Honest."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
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