[Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke

Steve rhodes2282 at yahoo.com
Fri Feb 13 05:57:45 EST 2004


Wally
I can't remember where I read the article about 2
strokes meeting standards; one of my sail mag
probably.  But I would think you are right.  If the
smaller motors don't already; its just a matter of
time.
Steve


--- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I had heard that the new cleaner 2 strokes were only
> coming out in the 
> larger motors. Is this true? I got to think that the
> technolgy will trickly 
> down to the smaller motors as well but you never
> know.....
> 
> Wally
> 
> 
> >From: "Kroposki" <kroposki at innova.net>
> >Reply-To: kroposki at innova.net,The Rhodes 22 mail
> list 
> ><rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle
> smoke
> >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:42:21 -0500
> >
> >Steve,
> >	The issue is that new 2 cycle engines are not
> smoke pots.  They
> >more than comply with the current environmental
> standards and they will
> >comply with the new impending standards.
> >	As for using oil, all gas motors use oil and some
> of that
> >lubricating oil is combusted.  The issue is how
> much of that oil and gas
> >is wasted directly into the environment.  The old 2
> cycle engines did
> >not care.  However, the EPA standards got the
> manufacturers attention
> >and the new engines do not statistically pollute
> the environment more
> >than 4 cycle engines which also spew pollutants. 
> All gas engines
> >pollute.  It is a matter of degree.  When that
> degree is evaluated
> >statistically is the difference significant? 
> Simply put, will the
> >impact difference between the two types of motors
> on the environment
> >really matter?  A few years ago the answer was yes,
> however, with design
> >changes the effects are no longer statistically
> significant.  They both
> >pollute.
> >
> >                                       Ed K
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve
> >Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 9:01 AM
> >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] 2 cycle vs 4 cycle
> >
> >I thought the reason they came out with 4 strocks
> were
> >to satify the Non-smoking folks:-) You know, you
> have
> >a smoking part of a Restaurant; and a non-smoking
> >part.  You can now have a smoking part of a lake; &
> a
> >non-smoking part:-)You see, the more folks that go
> 4
> >stoke; that means the more folks that can go 2
> stoke.
> >And the enviroment only get poluted the same amount
> >that we have always done for years:-)Beside, we
> need a
> >little more Globle warming.  Temps here are in the
> >40s.  That evendent that we need to polute quite a
> bit
> >more.  Arkansas need to be warm up so are winter
> stay
> >above 50 degrees:-)What are you thinking,
> Michael:-)
> >Steve
> >
> >
> >--- Michael Meltzer <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com> wrote:
> > > Well lets try a differ tack for the sessions
> version
> > > of the question, "So how much harm are you
> willing
> > > to cause, like: frogs
> > > killed, fish unfit to eat, woman miscarry,
> children
> > > born with birth defects, men going impememnt,
> etc..
> > > so you can selflessy use
> > > your 2 stoke". BTW did you beat your wife to day
> :-)
> > >
> > > MJM
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Kroposki" <kroposki at innova.net>
> > > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 9:12 AM
> > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] 2 cycle vs 4 cycle
> > >
> > >
> > > > Rummy,
> > > > Here we go again.  I know better than question
> the
> > > technical
> > > > accuracy and efficacy of Roger's eloquent
> > > discussion, but I can lift my
> > > > 2 cycle when I have to by myself.  Roger
> forgets
> > > that not everybody has
> > > > two robust sons to help.  It is the old
> problem of
> > > being able to see a
> > > > tree when you are in a forest.
> > > > Ed K
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 7:52 AM
> > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Yamaha 9.9 Water
> Pump
> > > Replacement
> > > >
> > > > Jay,
> > > >
> > > > The usual problem with the water pump
> impellors on
> > > small outboards is
> > > > that
> > > > they are made from some sort of rubber.  It's
> > > really a rather clever
> > > > design.
> > > > At low speed & at start-up, the rubber vanes
> on
> > > the impellor touch the
> > > > water
> > > > pump housing, thus making the pump positive
> > > displacement & self-priming.
> > > > At
> > > > high speed, the rubber vanes deflect out of
> the
> > > way & ride on top of a
> > > > boundary layer of water on the wetted surface
> of
> > > the water pump housing.
> > > > At
> > > > high speed, the vanes don't experience any
> wear
> > > because they are not
> > > > touching the pump housing.  This design makes
> the
> > > water pump capable of
> > > > automatically switching from positive
> displacement
> > > mode to centrifugal
> > > > mode
> > > > for delivering the high volume of cooling
> water
> > > required by high speed
> > > > operation.
> > > >
> > > > So what goes wrong?  Well, if the water pump
> ever
> > > runs dry, the rubber
> > > > impellor will lose the lubrication & cooling
> > > provided by the water,
> > > > overheat, & destroy itself very quickly, like
> in a
> > > few seconds!
> > > > Exposure to
> > > > oil & gasoline in the water (like the oil film
> > > that laid down by 2-cycle
> > > > outboards) will gradually break down the
> rubber
> > > polymer molecules in the
> > > > impellor; leading to embrittlement, cracking,
> and
> > > failure.  This is
> > > > probably
> > > > the single biggest long-term failure
> mechanism.
> > > Pump impellors should
> > > > be
> > > > routinely replaced every 4 years due to this
> cause
> > > alone.  There is also
> > > > another common failure mechanism related to
> > > storage.  When the lower leg
> > > > is
> > > > lifted free of the water, the entire cooling
> > > system drains down.  This
> > > > is
> > > > why the water pump needs to be self-priming at
> > > start-up.  Even fresh
> > > > water &
> > > > especially ocean water, has a certain amount
> of
> > > dissolved mineral salts
> > > > in
> > > > it.  When the cooling system drains down, a
> small
> > > amount of water is
> > > > left
> > > > trapped in between the ends of the vanes on
> the
> > > water pump impellor &
> > > > the
> > > > aluminum pump housing.  When this water
> eventually
> > > evaporates in
> > > > storage,
> > > > the impellor vanes can be bonded by salt
> crystals
> > > to the pump housing.
> > > > Depending upon how strong this bond is, the
> rubber
> > > impellor can be
> > > > damaged
> > > > the next time the engine is started when the
> vanes
> > > are ripped free of
> > > > the
> > > > salt crystals.  In addition, for the 1st few
> > > minutes of operation,
> > > > before
> > > > the salt crystals dissolve, they form a
> relatively
> > > rough surface on the
> > > > water pump housing that the rubber vanes have
> to
> > > run over on every
> > > > revolution.  Finally, there can be corrosion
> > > issues with moist salt
> > > > crystals
> > > > in long-term contact with the aluminum pump
> > > housing in this scenario.
> > > > In
> > > > salt water, it's considered good practice to
> fresh
> > > water flush the
> > > > cooling
> > > > system after every use & certainly before
> > > long-term storage.  After
> > > > long-term storage, it wouldn't hurt to fresh
> water
> > > flush the cooling
> > > > system
> > > > prior to start-up.  As part of my outboard
> > > winterizing proceedure, I
> > > > flush
> > > > propylene gylcol potable antifreeze (RV "red
> pop")
> > > thru the cooling
> > > > systems
> > > > of my outboards.  propylene glycol will
> prevent
> > > the build-up of salt
> > > > crystals in-between the vanes and the water
> pump
> > > housing.  During the
> > > > boating season, on every start-up, I gently
> pull
> > > the outboard thru with
> > > > the
> > > > pull cord prior to starting it to break the
> water
> > > pump impellor free &
> > > > give
> > > > the engine several minutes of low speed
> warm-up.
> > > >
> > > > The result, the only water pump I've ever had
> fail
> > > on any of my
> > > > outboards in
> > > > 25+ years of boating was the time when my
> younger
> > > son Gary ran the
> > > > inflatable dingy & Honda 9.9 hp outboard up on
> the
> > > beach with the engine
> > > > at
> > > > full throttle.  The water pump impellor was
> burnt
> > > to a crisp!
> > > >
> > > > Good luck!
> > > >
> > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Michael Meltzer"
> <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 2:25 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Yamaha 9.9 Water
> Pump
> > > Replacement
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > sounds like overkill and make work, maybe
> the
> > > impeller very 4 years,
> > > > but
> > > > the complete pump, nah. you are only putting
> 25-50
> > > hours on
> > > > > the motor every year, one thing you do have
> to
> > > watch is salt on the
> > > > thermostat(and blow the pelages, clean the pee
> tub
> > > yearly), is
> > > > > one of the few parts on the engine that is
> not
> > > rust proof, time will
> > > > get
> > > > it and they need to be replace every two
> years,
> > > luckily it
> > > > > is also a simple job that you can do
> yourself.
> > > > >
> > > > > MJM
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Jay Friedland" <a.jayf at verizon.net>
> > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 11:25 AM
> > > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Yamaha 9.9 Water
> Pump
> > > Replacement
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Folks,
> > > > > > My ob service guy says Yam recommends
> > > replacing the water pump
> > > > assembly
> > > > > > every year. The motor is 2001 with this
> the
> > > first year in service.
> > > > I'm
> > > > > > in salt water 9-10 months, occasionally
> flush
> > > with ear muffs (once a
> > > > > > month), and end of season run it in a
> barrel
> > > of fresh water for 1/2
> > > > > > hour (alos to burn off deposits, etc.).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anybody offer best suggestions on
> proceeding
> > > with this replacement
> > > > or
> > > > > > any other winter routine?
> > > > > >   Thanks, Jay
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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