[Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements

[Peter Thorn]

Slim,

Just a (hopefully) helpful suggestion:  most states now require trailed
loads exceeding 3,000# (all R22s) to have brakes.  If you don't have brakes
already, this will require an actuator/coupler, an axle with brakes and more
labor.

PT

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Alm" <salm at mn.rr.com>
To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements


> Hi Julie,
>
> Thanks again for the offer.  Here's what we decided:  After lots of phone
> calls and running around, I finally found a well-recommended welding shop
> that has done hundreds of trailers.  The guy took about two hours to look
> the trailer over, explore all the options and pricing out each one.  We
> discovered that the original axle is only rated for 3500 lbs.  The boat
and
> trailer combined well exceed that, so not only would I have to move the
> axle, I'd also have to upgrade to a 3" 6000 lb. axle and 16" tires.
>
> Next, we considered leaving the original and adding a second 3500 lb.
axle.
> After lots of discussion and a phone call to Stan, we decided to go with
the
> tandem axle.  Stan's first reaction was, "Well, then you can afford two
> flats."  8-)  The disadvantage being that it's harder to maneuver the
> trailer around by hand when the boats not on it.  It doesn't turn as
easily.
> But it's going to totally solve the tongue weight and balance problem once
> and for all, and there will be no more of that fishtailing.  It should
track
> down the road much better.
>
> We went out and had a fantastic sail on Tuesday.  Hope to see you soon.
>
> Slim
>
> On 7/27/04 7:16 AM, "Julie Thorndycraft" <julie at circle7.net> wrote:
>
> > Slim,
> > When Blue Loon gets back from Ontario/Lake Superior, come over and take
> > measurements off of our trailer. We have learned that we have to have
the
> > aft side of the third portlight either in front of the axle or right on
top
> > of it.
> >
> > Our trailer (Triad model built for the Rhodes), hauls the boat great if
we
> > follow that guideline. If we don't then we get to drive 45mph and have
white
> > knuckles.
> >
> > We've been using the Regional Park on Mtka, which has a great ramp. I
take
> > the boat across the lake and Dan backs the trailer in as he sees me
coming
> > around the corner, I drive on, and he pulls the boat out of the water.
We've
> > been driving the boat with the mast up to the top of the hill where the
> > trailer lot is located. Then we can take all the time in the world to
get
> > things tied down. We've been doing the same for the launch.
> >
> > Get some quotes before you spend a bunch of money on your trailer. You
may
> > find that it makes sense to buy a new Triad. Otherwise, Blue Loon will
be
> > back on Lake Minnetonka around August 3rd and will be staying in the
lake
> > until Labor Day when she's off to the Upper Peninsula. You can borrow
our
> > trailer anytime during that period.
> >
> > Julie
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Alm" <salm at mn.rr.com>
> > To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 12:01 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
> >
> >
> >> Bill,
> >>
> >> Here's my situation at this point:  When landing Fandango, I can't get
it
> >> far enough forward on the trailer.  Many attempts, various ramps,
various
> >> depths,  etc. but always the same result.  At least it's consistent.
If
> >> only the balance were right, it'd be nearly foolproof!  That part gives
me
> >> hope.
> >>
> >> This spring I bought a pair of WM boat stands and a floor jack.  And I
> > have
> >> trailer jacks on the rear corners of the trailer, and together with the
> >> tongue jack, I raise the trailer as high as it will go on its 3 jacks.
> > This
> >> raises the trailer wheels off the ground. Then I put the boat stands
under
> >> the stern quarters and can even raise the hull up some more by cranking
> > the
> >> screws on the boat stands.  Then I pull the tongue extension out of the
> > way
> >> and put the floor jack under the bow, jack it up as high as it will go.
> > At
> >> this point, you can lower the trailer jacks and the boat is perched on
the
> >> floor jack at the bow and the two boat stands in the stern--a nice,
sturdy
> >> tripod. Even if one of those stands were to fail, the trailer bunks are
> > only
> >> inches below.
> >>
> >> Now I go to the trailer's bow winch clipped to the bow eye of the boat
> > and,
> >> with the boat on the hard, I winch the trailer backwards--farther under
> > the
> >> boat.  I have to lift the boat off the trailer in this way in order to
> >> position the trailer under the boat at the correct balance point, i.e.,
to
> >> get enough tongue weight.  Needless to say this is a royal PITA, albeit
> >> doable.
> >>
> >> Roger's not the only one to modify a trailer.  Rik posted his changes
too.
> >> I saved their recommendations as well as Todd's dimensions,  and I'm
just
> >> gonna have to go for it.  But when it comes right down to it, I'm going
to
> >> have to guess at how far to move the axle back.  Is there a formula for
> >> this?  I'm thinking about 6".
> >>
> >> Slim
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/26/04 10:35 PM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Slim,
> >>>
> >>> If you can make a better trailer than the one Stan builds, Stan will
> > give you
> >>> his blessings.  You know that.  My comments were addressed only to the
> > idea of
> >>> copying what Stan built without either obtaining his permission, or
> > paying him
> >>> for doing so.  I know you, as a musician, are well acquainted with
this
> >>> concept.
> >>>
> >>> With regard to trailers, you should probably convince Roger to build
one
> > for
> >>> you to Roger's own specifications, or get Roger to send you a set of
> > plans so
> >>> you can duplicate his trailer which is a successful home-built of his
> > own
> >>> design.  (Personally I would avoid his glow-in-the-dark model,
> > notwithstanding
> >>> its possible nighttime safety advantages.)
> >>>
> >>> I would like to see someone build a Rhodes trailer with on-board Jack
> > Stands
> >>> so the boat could easily be lifted off the bunks for painting and
below
> >>> waterline, off season chores.  If someone develops and tests that
> > concept, I'd
> >>> be a buyer, and I'd happily pay my share for all the dropped wrecked
> > boats
> >>> destroyed while trying to make this idea work.
> >>>
> >>> Bill
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: Steve Alm
> >>> To: Rhodes
> >>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Bill,
> >>>
> >>> So what's a guy to do?  Are you saying that I have no other options
than
> > to
> >>> trailer my boat all the way to Edenton (there's the first
problem--I'll
> >>> probably kill myself or someone else in the process)  so that Stan can
> >>> adjust my trailer to fit my boat--all boats being a little different?
> > If
> >>> Stan himself doesn't do the work, I'm opening myself up to hellish
> >>> consequences?
> >>>
> >>> Honestly, Bill, I'm not trying to be an argumentative PITA here--but I
> > need
> >>> to get my trailer fixed and I'm not going to pull it to GBI.  As much
as
> > I'd
> >>> like to, that's just not an option.  I need to be able to put my faith
> > in a
> >>> reputable shop in MN with realistic specs and get this job done.  It
> > can't
> >>> be that hard--can it?
> >>>
> >>> I bought the Rhodes because it's supposed to be a trailerable rig. At
> > this
> >>> point, mine is simply not, and I don't mind saying I'm more than a
> > little
> >>> disappointed.  I love sailing the R22 but if I can't solve this
problem
> > I
> >>> don't want it.  It's not safe!
> >>>
> >>> Slim
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 7/26/04 8:30 PM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Slim,
> >>>>
> >>>> If you are reading these in order you saw Stan gave his blessing to
> > those
> >>>> repairing and building their trailers.  As always, he is very
generous
> > in
> >>>> these matters.  Also I have dozens of postings wherein Stan has
> > suggested
> >>>> methods for moving the center of gravity to improve the trailer for
> >>>> individual
> >>>> boats.
> >>>>
> >>>> My original reply to Herb was primarily for newer members of the list
> > who may
> >>>> not have thought through this matter, and its ramifications.  Herb
> > responded
> >>>> generously multiple times.  That was all I was asking.  Thank you,
> > Herb.
> >>>>
> >>>> With regard to using an engineer as a lawyer, I would strongly urge
> > against
> >>>> it.  If you honestly believe you can take a full set of plans for a
> > Ford,
> >>>> that
> >>>> you received from a third party, and take them to Toyota, and have
> > Toyota
> >>>> build you just one Ford for your personal use and eventual sale to an
> >>>> unwitting fourth party...you could wind up in jail before you get
back
> > to
> >>>> Brazil.  Patent law would be the least of your problems--there are
> > dozens of
> >>>> laws on the books prohibiting this activity.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: Steve Alm
> >>>> To: Rhodes
> >>>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:38 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill,
> >>>>
> >>>> I hope you don't feel badly of me for asking, but speaking as one of
> > those
> >>>> who has had a great deal of trouble with my trailer, just exactly how
> >>>> intellectual is this property?  After all, mine is a lemon.
> >>>>
> >>>> Having not purchased my boat and trailer from GBI, I have no
certainty
> >>>> whatsoever if Stan put his stamp of approval on my rig before it left
> > the
> >>>> shop so I know better than to point fingers--but the fact remains
that
> > I
> >>>> have to rebuild my trailer.  Last year, when I posted my complaints,
> > even
> >>>> Stan said I need to have my axle moved.  This is no small
modification.
> >>>>
> >>>> Now, I'd like nothing more than to bring the boat and trailer to Stan
> > and
> >>>> ask him to fix it for me, but I live in MN.  There must be a better
> > option.
> >>>> If I had the correct specs, I'd take the rig to a qualified shop here
> > at
> >>>> home and have them do the work.  I'm not qualified to do this kind of
> > work
> >>>> myself so I need some help, i.e., specs to give to the shop that does
> > the
> >>>> work.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you, Roger, for reminding us of the legalities of this.  If I
> > have
> >>>> this work done here in MN and then something goes dreadfully wrong, I
> > won't
> >>>> be liable--the shop that does the work will be the target of any
> > litigation.
> >>>> I'm certainly not going into production and sales of R22 trailers--I
> > just
> >>>> want mine to work.
> >>>>
> >>>> Slim
> >>>>
> >>>> On 7/26/04 11:31 AM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm an author who earns a living off my intellectual property.  I
> > think it's
> >>>>> wrong for people to buy what I've written, make a copy, and send the
> > copy to
> >>>>> their friends without paying me for my work.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Stan spent a lot of time and money developing these trailers.
Anyone
> > can
> >>>>> look
> >>>>> at them, say "that's a good idea" and copy the concept, and modify
> > their own
> >>>>> trailer, or have someone else build one--to their own
specifications.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But to ask people on the list to measure the trailers they have
bought
> > from
> >>>>> Stan, and to send you the measurements, so you can build your own
> > trailer,
> >>>>> or
> >>>>> teach someone else how to build these trailers, without paying Stan
> > for his
> >>>>> intellectual property, is wrong, in my view.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm sure that is not what you were thinking when you asked the
> > question, and
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> do not think badly of you for asking it.  This has come up many
times
> >>>>> before,
> >>>>> and I only sometimes respond in this way.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But I do think it's wrong, and I haven't said anything about it for
a
> > while.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> By the way,  there have been people who extended your idea of "send
me
> > the
> >>>>> trailer measurements," to "why not copy and sell the whole
boat"--let
> > me
> >>>>> borrow your boat, I'll make molds from it, we'll make our own exact
> > copies
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> the boat, we'll sell them and split the profit--if we don't have to
> > pay
> >>>>> anything for R&D we can easily sell them for less than Stan can sell
> > them
> >>>>> for.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Essentially that's what you're trying to do in the trailer
department,
> > in my
> >>>>> view.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: Herb Parsons
> >>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> >>>>> Cc: bill at parsonsys.net
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:44 AM
> >>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I saw on here that someone had posted information about the trailer
> >>>>> measurements for a Rhodes 22. I assume this was bunkboard settings
and
> > such.
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> thought I had saved the original email, but could not find it. If
> > someone
> >>>>> has
> >>>>> that information, I would be grateful if you could pass it on to me.
> > The
> >>>>> Rhodes 22 we are trying to set up a trailer for is a 1983 model.
> > Thanks in
> >>>>> advance.
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list