[Rhodes22-list] Pagliacci and the Swing States

[Steve Alm]

Herb and Brad,

Sorry, I dropped out for the weekend because I was too busy with preparation
for, execution of, and recovery after our annual Halloween bash.  See the
attached photo of the winner of the costume contest:  Taddeo, the clown in
Pagliacci.

Now where were we?  Local control of the schools.  Yep, I agree too.  Thanks
to Bill for the quote:

"Education is a local responsibility, as far as I'm
concerned. A President should not try to be the
federal superintendent of schools, and I won't be."

George W. Bush
Governor, Texas (R)
July 17, 2000

I looks like Bush is the flip-flopper on this one with his federal mandate,
NCLB.  And for the record, Herb, you're right--I quit teaching in 2000, just
as GWB was penning NCLB.  I was teaching during the era of the previous
legislative ed gimmick called graduation standards, which was eventually
thrown out too.  It irks me to no end when legislators decide they know how,
what and why to teach better than the teachers.  As for my remark about the
janitor/lunch lady, I confess that when the scotch starts flowing around
here, so do the wise cracks.  I Hope I didn't offend.  But the point I was
trying to make is that if you're not a teacher, you don't have their
perspective.  I won't tell the lunch lady how to make sloppy Joes if she
won't tell teachers how to educate children.  I say the same to the
politicians.  I won't tell them how to kiss babies...

Did I understand you right?  The school board in each district gets to
decide how much property tax money they will get?  Party or no party, how do
they ever reach a decision?  In MN, if the district wants more money than
they've been allocated by the state, they hold a local referendum to
increase property taxes and the voters decide. In the last 6 or 8 years,
most of the referenda have passed.  In Minneapolis, about half of our
property tax goes to education.  But of course the politicians manipulate
the details every year.

Brad, we'd love to organize an effort to get rid of St. Paul's
superintendent but I actually live across the river in Minneapolis, so my
voice doesn't really count.  Further, I don't have children so my voice
counts even less.  As for Bush's stunned reaction on 9/11, let's face it, he
was only there reading to those kids for a photo op in the first place.  He
got what he asked for!

Slim

On 10/30/04 12:32 PM, "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:

> I couldn't agree more.
> 
> Herb Parsons
> 
> S/V O'Jure
> 1976 O'Day 25
> 
> S/V Reve de Papa
> 1971 Coronado 35
> 
> 
>>>> flybrad at yahoo.com 10/30/2004 9:23:09 AM >>>
> Herb and Slim,
> 
> Perhaps its not fair for me to knock our public
> education system since I chose not to participate with
> my own children.  However, I do pay taxes to support
> one, so here goes.
> 
> Why is the federal government involved in the local
> school districs to begin with?  Shouldn't this be a
> state and local issue?  The further control of a
> government entity gets from home, the less control you
> have over it.  I don't vote as a partisan below the
> state level, I vote for the best candidate.  Slim, if
> a Republican school administrator screwed up your
> school, get rid of her.  Organize a parental group to
> protest her policies.  You can do that on the local
> level, its much more difficult when you're dealing
> with Washington.
> 
> The 9/11 issue of whether Bush should have continued
> reading to school kids or bolt out of the room IS an
> issue with me.  The President of the United States
> shouldn't be addressing problems that rightly belong
> to the local communities. Bush should never have been
> there to begin with! However, since we've evolved to
> the place in time where "they" whoever "they" may be
> and not our local government is responsible for our
> schools, we have to deal with federal mandates.  NCLB
> is nothing more than a market mechanism that lets
> parents know whether a school is performing or not.
> Its still up to the parents and the local taxpayers to
> make the changes, not some beauracrat in DC.
> 
> People get the idea that as long as the money for
> something, ie, schools, roads, sewers, etc., comes
> from the federal level, its someone elses money.  Its
> your money.  When its raised locally, spent locally,
> and controlled locally, taxpayers are more demanding
> and administrators are more accountable.
> 
> How we got the idea that 535 clowns in DC along with
> the President is responsible for our schools is beyond
> me.
> 
> Brad Haslett
> "CoraShen"
> 
> 
> --- Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> 
>> Can't speak for your state, but in Texas, funding
>> for schools is done
>> largely by local property taxes. Tax rates for each
>> independent school
>> district are set by the local school board. The
>> local school board are,
>> in most school districts, required to be non-party.
>> Sorry you're so
>> unhappy with the system in your state.
>> 
>>> From the "past tense" way you speak of working in
>> the schools, it
>> sounds as if your experience pre-dated NCLB, so I'm
>> not quite sure where
>> the vitriol against "republicans" comes from. Just
>> my opinion, but it
>> looks to me as if it's just one more opportunity to
>> rale against those
>> nasty Republicans.
>> 
>> If I WERE the janitor or the lunch lady, would that
>> make me any less
>> able to observe what was going on around me?
>> 
>> Herb Parsons
>> 
>> S/V O'Jure
>>   1976 O'Day 25
>> 
>> S/V Reve de Papa
>>   1971 Coronado 35
>> 
>> 
>>>>> salm at mn.rr.com 10/30/2004 4:54:28 AM >>>
>> Herb,
>> 
>> I did indeed answer your question.  It's the
>> Republicans that take away
>> the
>> money--be they state or federal.  If you work for a
>> school district
>> and
>> don't know how the NCLB Act is an under funded
>> mandate, then my next
>> question is, are you the janitor?  The lunch lady?
>> OK, sorry, that's
>> a
>> cheap shot, but otherwise I find it pretty hard to
>> understand how
>> anyone
>> cannot know how the Republicans have screwed the
>> public schools with
>> funding
>> cuts and, ummm... union-bashing. But I digress.
>> 
>> Don't blame Bush?  Who's in charge?  Exactly where
>> does the buck stop?
>> This
>> "fact" that Bush has increased funding for education
>> is a smokescreen.
>> Besides being too little--too late, besides being
>> nothing but the next
>> political gimmick to save our schools, it's a slap
>> in the face to
>> teachers
>> because it piles on extra pointless work but doesn't
>> pay for it and
>> will
>> never achieve any meaningful results.  To say
>> nothing of the fact that
>> ALL
>> children CANNOT succeed.  No Child Left Behind--my
>> ass!  Forget about
>> it!
>> The whole concept is completely bogus.
>> 
>> I don't know where you work but I've worked in urban
>> schools where you
>> can
>> just hear the sucking sound of failing students
>> ready to drop out as
>> soon as
>> they're sixteen.  And I'm in Minnesota--one of the
>> top states in
>> student
>> achievement.  But then Republicans have the gaul to
>> blame teachers for
>> the
>> failures of the students and their parents.  They
>> won't blame the
>> parents
>> because the parents are voters!  It's too easy to
>> lay blame elsewhere:
>> teachers. They're easy targets.
>> 
>> Aside:  Of course there's bureaucratic waste.  Ex:
>> The first thing that
>> St.
>> Paul superintendent, Patricia Harvey (R) did when
>> she took office was
>> to add
>> twelve--count 'em--twelve administrative assistant
>> positions.  Funded
>> by
>> NCLB?  No, their salaries come out of general ed.
>> 
>> Question: Do you think that the best way to educate
>> our children--the
>> future
>> leaders of the world--is to cut?
>> 
>> Slim
>> 
>> On 10/29/04 9:01 PM, "Herb Parsons"
>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> It doesn't matter if your state is cutting funds,
>> that's not Bush's
>>> fault. The FACT is that the federal government has
>> increased
>> funding.
>>> 
>>> Careful preaching too much about what teachers
>> have to do, or don't
>>> have to do, I work for a school district for a
>> living, I see typical
>>> beauracratic waste daily.
>>> 
>>> But, I'll repeat my question, who is taking money
>> away? If it's your
>>> state, don't blame Bush.
>>> 
>>> Herb Parsons
>>> 
>>> S/V O'Jure
>>> 1976 O'Day 25
>>> 
>>> S/V Reve de Papa
>>> 1971 Coronado 35
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> salm at mn.rr.com 10/29/2004 3:55:56 PM >>>
>>> Herb,
>>> I can only speak for Minnesota.  The Republicans
>> have done nothing
>> but
>>> cut
>>> ed funds every year they had the chance.  Or dems
>> have tried to
>> boost
>>> it but
>>> got vetoed by former Republican or Independent
>> (Jesse Ventura)
>>> Governors.
>>> Nobody is getting more.  Everybody is getting
>> less.  Almost every
>>> district
>>> in the state is cutting.  The Minneapolis district
>> alone is closing
>> at
>>> least
>>> a dozen schools.  I hear Bush saying he's
>> increased ed funds but we
>>> just
>>> don't see it at the classroom level.  That money
>> goes mostly for new
>>> testing
>>> with the NCLB Act but falls short of actually
>> paying for it.  This
>>> means the
>>> work load for teachers has increased but the
>> money's not there to
>> cover
>>> it.
>>> That translates to less time the teachers have to
>> actually teach. 
>> Or
>>> rather, they have to spend a lot more time
>> teaching how to take
>> tests.
>>> Slim
>>> 
>>> On 10/29/04 3:20 PM, "Herb Parsons"
>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> What money did anyone take away?
>>>> 
>>>> Herb Parsons
>>>> 
>>>> S/V O'Jure
>>>> 1976 O'Day 25
>>>> 
>>>> S/V Reve de Papa
>>>> 1971 Coronado 35
>>>> 
>>>>>>> salm at mn.rr.com 10/29/04 3:15 PM >>>
>>>> Steve,
>>>> 
>>>> You're right that throwing money at it might not
>> necessarily fix
>> it,
>> 
> === message truncated ===
> 
> 
> 
> 
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