[Rhodes22-list] Some Public School Programs Work Pretty Well

Wally Buck tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Sat Oct 9 10:05:27 EDT 2004


Todd,

Now that is cold! I am glad you learned to swim!

Wally

>From: "Todd Tavares" <sprocket80 at mail.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Some Public School Programs Work Pretty Well
>Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 19:37:53 -0500
>
>
>    Roger,
>
>         I wish I had such a plan to use when I got out of high school.
>    My older brother got a full boat scholarship to the University of
>    Maryland for Civil Engineering (he never completed his
>    degree).  My parents paid for my sister to attend nursing school in
>    Baltimore.   Both would come home on the weekends and drop their
>    laundry off on Mom while they went out and partied with their friends.
>
>       I graduated in the June of 1980.....right in the middle of the Iran
>    Hostage Crisis and the re-start of the Selective Service registration
>    for a possible draft.  Having not working hard enough during my senior
>    year of high school, a scholarship was not in my future.  My father
>    was drafted in WWII and being his favorite son :-) he did not me to be
>    drafted should we go to war in Iran.  I decided to got to a trade
>    school in Tulsa, Oklahoma to learn aircraft mechanics.  Pops promised
>    to pay my tuition and buy me a used car.  Rent and food was my
>    problem.
>
>       We loaded my dad's old Chevy van with my few possesions and headed
>    to Oklahoma.  The transmission in the van started to slip as we pulled
>    into town.(an omen of things to come, but I failed to see the signs)
>    Well, I registered for classes and found a roommate.  The only thing
>    left was to find a used car dealer..so we headed out.  Imagine my
>    surprise when we pulled up in front of the departures terminal at
>    Tulsa International Airport.  He jumped out and his parting remark
>    before disappearing into the crowd was "Get the transmission fixed and
>    you got yourself a nice van!" (omen #2).
>
>       I found a part time evening job and was settling in to my new life
>    away at school. About four months later, I got a notice to see the man
>    in the finance office.  He informed me that my tuition was already two
>    months behind.  I assured him that it had to be a mistake because my
>    dad was paying the tuition.  He handed me the telephone and I called
>    my father long distance, at work, in D.C., and the conversation went
>    just like this:
>
>       "Hey Dad, I am sitting here in the finance office at school and the
>    man here says that my tuition is two months behind!?"
>
>       Dad:    "Oh yeah, I've been meaning to call you...(awkward
>    silence).... You're on your own now kid...Sink or Swim!"   CLICK
>
>
>    Todd
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: "Roger Pihlaja"
>    Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:25:47 -0400
>    To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
>    Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Some Public School Programs Work Pretty
>    Well
>    > Todd,
>    >
>    > Deb & I also had a "pay for performance" bonus for grades with
>    Daniel &
>    > Gary. Same pay scale too: $5.00 per A, $4.50 per A-, $3.50 per B+,
>    $3.00
>    > per B, $2.50 per B-. For all A's, the bonus was dinner with the
>    family at
>    > the restaurant of their choice, or the cash equivalent. (The cash
>    equivalent
>    > of their dinner, not 4 fancy dinners! - about $25 at the time)
>    Daniel flip
>    > flopped both ways between dinner & the money depending upon his
>    finances at
>    > the time. Gary has, so far, always chosen the restaurant. At the
>    > restaurant, we've always had a celebratory toast for the honor roll
>    student.
>    >
>    > With Daniel in college, we have a different system. We have a
>    contract. In
>    > this contract, Deb & I agreed to pay for tuition, books & supplies,
>    fees,
>    > room & board, clothing, travel expenses to and from home, provide a
>    car, pay
>    > the insurance and maintenance costs on that car, and a weekly
>    allowance
>    > (currently $30/week) in order to allow Daniel to attend any public
>    college
>    > in Michigan enrolled in any degree program he chooses. Daniel choose
>    > Northern Michigan University (NMU) in Marquette, MI in their Graphic
>    > Arts/Electronic Imaging program. In return, Daniel agreed to:
>    >
>    > 1. You must carry a sufficient class load each semester to keep you
>    on track
>    > to graduate in 4 years.
>    > If you fall behind in your degree schedule by failing or dropping
>    > classes or not taking enough
>    > classes; then, you must attend summer school at your own expense
>    until
>    > you ar e caught up.
>    >
>    > 2. If you receive a grade in any of your classes that is not
>    sufficient to
>    > permit you to apply it towards
>    > your degree; then, you must pay the tuition and fees for that class.
>    > Plus, see item #1 regarding
>    > the consequences of retaking that class.
>    >
>    > 3. The expectation is that your cumulative GPA will be => 3.0. If
>    your GPA
>    > falls below 3.0, we have a
>    > formula that calculates the proportion of tuition and fees you will
>    owe
>    > for the semester that your
>    > academic performance was below standard. Basically, at a GPA < 2.0,
>    you
>    > will be paying 100%.
>    > Plus, see item #1.
>    >
>    > 4. The cost of room & board is based upon the current cost of living
>    on
>    > campus in the dormitory and
>    > eating in the NMU cafeterias. If you wish to live off campus; then,
>    you
>    > will pay any increased cost
>    > of living.
>    >
>    > 5. For each academic school year, we will settle up accounts at the
>    end of
>    > summer. If you cannot pay
>    > your share based upon the above criteria; then, you will have to
>    > interrupt your college and get a job
>    > to pay off your debt.
>    >
>    > 6. Changing your major is highly discouraged. However, if you must
>    change
>    > your major; then, talk to
>    > us regarding the situation sooner rather than later. We will
>    > renegotiate your contract.
>    >
>    > 7. The only excuse for not performing against the above criteria is
>    serious
>    > illness or injury. In this case,
>    > we will renegotiate your contract based upon the specific
>    circumstances.
>    >
>    > So far, a few of the clauses in this contract have been invoked.
>    Daniel
>    > doofed the winter semester of his freshman year with a GPA of 2.4.
>    He owed
>    > us about $600. Although Daniel worked a part-time job, by the end of
>    > summer, 2002, he had not paid off the debt. So, Daniel stayed home
>    in the
>    > fall semester, 2003, attended Delta College from home, and worked
>    part time.
>    > Daniel took general education classes at Delta College which would
>    transfer
>    > up to NMU in order to keep him on degree schedule track. By the end
>    of the
>    > fall semester, 2003; Daniel had paid off his debt, gotten his GPA
>    back up, &
>    > attended the winter semester, 2004 at NMU. During this semester, he
>    dropped
>    > a class just before the close of the drop period, thus invoking
>    clause #1.
>    > Daniel took another class at Delta College in the summer of 2004 and
>    worked
>    > to pay off his debt. Also in August, 2003, Daniel wrecked his car.
>    > Fortunately, no was hurt; but, Daniel's Subaru Legacy AWD sedan was
>    totaled.
>    > The accident was 100% Daniel's fault. Deb & I only agreed to provide
>    one
>    > car & Daniel has been without a car since then. Daniel & I commuted
>    to
>    > college together a lot in the fall semester, 2003 and last summer.
>    Delta
>    > College is about 5 miles from Saginaw Valley State University
>    (SVSU). I
>    > would drop Daniel off at Delta College on my way to school & Daniel
>    was
>    > either stuck there until I came back to get him based upon my class
>    schedule
>    > or had to find his own way home. Note that both college campuses are
>    about
>    > 35 miles away from our home. This year, Daniel is living off campus
>    for the
>    > 1st time. He's living in the Lambda Chi Alpha fraternity house with
>    an
>    > on-campus cafeteria meal pass. The difference in the cost of living
>    is
>    > theoretically only about $1.50 per month. But, we'll reexamine this
>    expense
>    > with real data after each semester. It's been a little messy; but,
>    so far
>    > the plan is working. Hopefully, Daniel won't mess up any more
>    classes
>    > because were running out of subjects he could take locally that wo
>    uld
>    > relevant towards his degree.
>    >
>    > Gary is watching all these developments with great interest because
>    he knows
>    > he's next in line!
>    >
>    > Roger Pihlaja
>    > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>    >
>    > ----- Original Message -----
>    > From: "Todd Tavares"
>    > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
>    > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 10:44 PM
>    > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Some Public School Programs Work Pretty
>    Well
>    >
>    >
>    > >
>    > > Brad,
>    > >
>    > > My wife and I have always firmly encouraged our boys to do their
>    > > very best without pushing too hard. We didn't want to force them,
>    and
>    > > have always made school/homework fun and rewarding I took quite a
>    > > bit of grief from friends because I give my sons money for grades,
>    > > with a very special bonus for straight A's. I defend my actions
>    > > because this mirrors the corporate world.....pay for top
>    performance.
>    > > A's are $5, B's are $3, but a big ticket item for straight A's. I
>    > > didn't know mountain bikes cost so dang much!! lol
>    > >
>    > > Luckily, these days doing good in school is cool!! The smartest
>    > > kids are the most popular. The teen years have arrived though and
>    > > only time will tell. But soon it will be four-wheelers and cars
>    > > instead of mountain bikes.
>    > >
>    > > Todd
>    > >
>    > > ----- Original Message -----
>    > > From: brad haslett
>    > > Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:02:18 -0700 (PDT)
>    > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>    > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Some Public School Programs Work
>    Pretty
>    > > Well
>    > > > Todd,
>    > > >
>    > > > You may recall a controversial book that was published
>    > > > in 1994 titled "The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class
>    > > > Stucture in American Life" by Herrnstein and Murray.
>    > > > Herrnstein had the good sense to die before
>    > > > publication which left Charles Murray alone to defend
>    > > > chapter 13. His studies showed that Asian-Americans
>    > > > tested slightly higher in IQ than other groups but
>    > > > this alone wouldn't account for their superior
>    > > > academic performance. He was crucified by the PC
>    > > > police.
>    > > >
>    > > > Students attempt to meet the standards that are set
>    > > > for them at home. If those standards or even a
>    > > > fu nctioning home is missing, performance will suffer.
>    > > > It is beyond the function of the education system to
>    > > > fix those problems.
>    > > >
>    > > > Some public schools work because the communit ies where
>    > > > they are located work. Merging functioning schools
>    > > > with non-functioning ones generally drag both down.
>    > > > This is not a racist view, this is what we used to
>    > > > call common sense before the cottage industry of
>    > > > political correctness was developed.
>    > > >
>    > > > Brad Haslett
>    > > > "CoraShen"
>    > > >
>    > > >
>    > > > --- Todd Tavares wrote:
>    > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > > Roger,
>    > > > >
>    > > > > We HAD something like that here in Maryland,
>    > > > > called the MSPAP. I
>    > > > > was initally to used to gage how well the schools
>    > > > > were teaching the
>    > > > > pupils. The schools had to pass and each year
>    > > > > show an improvement or
>    > > > > face ta ke-ove r by the state BOE.
>    > > > >
>    > > > > We unfortunately did not reap such positive
>    > > > > results. Instead, the
>    > > > > results were twisted and used by a certain
>    > > > > racially based "lobbyist"
>    > > > > group (no names here), to show that minority
>    > > > > children did universally
>    > > > > worse than their white counterparts. The test
>    > > > > was supposed to be
>    > > > > blind and the children's sex, ethnic and economic
>    > > > > information was
>    > > > > never to be recorded...but it was.
>    > > > >
>    > > > > A committee was formed by the state Board of
>    > > > > Ed to find out why
>    > > > > the minority children....all except a group named
>    > > > > the "Asian/Pacific
>    > > > > Islander Group"...were scoring po orly. The
>    > > > > committee spent two years
>    > > > > and generated a 208 page report. I studied the
>    > > > > report in painstaking
>    > > > > detail. The c onclusion was 11 reasons grouped
>    > > > > into three main root
>    > > > > causes. Poverty, Lack of parental involvement,
>    > > > > and low self esteem.
>    > > > > When explaining why the Asian/Pacific Islander
>    > > > > Group children (approx
>    > > > > 2%) scored consistently highest in all grades and
>    > > > > genders, the
>    > > > > committee came up with a statement..to
>    > > > > paraphrase it...It is widely
>    > > > > known that Asian students are generally the
>    > > > > smarter.
>    > > > >
>    > > > > Poverty meant that the children were under
>    > > > > nourished, could no t
>    > > > > buy paper and pencils, etc. Lack of parental
>    > > > > involvement is
>    > > > > self-explanatory. Low self esteem was sort of a
>    > > > > catch-all for every
>    > > > > other excuse. Low self esteem came from low self
>    > > > > worth in males
>    > > > > because of the absence of a male role model in
>    > > > > th e home setting;
>    > > > > and the instructional material did not reflect
>    > > > > enough people of color
>    > > > > or their heritage. That is about the only point
>    > > > > I could have agreed
>    > > > > with. etc, etc, etc.
>    > > > >
>    > > > > The state budgeted monies and came up with
>    > > > > very loose guidelines
>    > > > > for the counties to follow as far as what types
>    > > > > of programs and
>    > > > > activities to provide to the minoritiy students.
>    > > > > This money was to
>    > > > > specifically help only minority students who were
>    > > > > scoring poorly. The
>    > > > > counties in turn passed the money out to the
>    > > > > schools and left it up to
>    > > > > individual principals to decide how to use it.
>    > > > > (within the vague
>    > > > > guidelines mandated by the state BOE) There was
>    > > > > no accountability at
>    > > > > all. At my sons' elementary school there was
>    > > > > free breakfast and
>    > > > > lunch for minority children, free before and
>    > > > > after daycare for
>    > > > > minority children, they had the "BBC'......the
>    > > > > black boys club which
>    > > > > held field trips, pizza parties and more
>    > &g t; > > exclusively for "african
>    > > > > american" students. Hispanic, Asian and all other
>    > > > > minority students
>    > > > > were excluded....community mentoring and big
>    > > > > brother programs, etc.
>    > > > > The principal was African American, and she too k
>    > > > > all of the money
>    > > > > given out by the state, all money budgeted for
>    > > > > the gifted and talented
>    > > > > program, and even bullied the PTA into opening
>    > > > > their accounts to her
>    > > > > for the stealing.
>    > > > >
>    > > > > One of the county Board of Ed members is a
>    > > > > friend of ours. When she
>    > > > > spoke out against the testing and kept her
>    > > > > children home during that
>    > > > > week, she was publicly censured by the Board,
>    > > > > received a gag order
>    > > > > and was threatened with legal action for not
>    > > > > having her children at
>    > > > > in school.
>    > > > >
>    > > > > Thankfully so much negative publicity was
>    > > > > generated that the state
>    > > > > stopped this particular test. Now we have "No
>    > > > > Child Left Behind" and
>    > > > > no funding.
>    > > > >
>    > > > > My brother and sister-in-law have their
>    > > > > daughter in a Catholic
>    > > > > school. There are less programs and resources
>    > > > > available than in public
>    > > > > schools. They face a different set of problems
>    > > > > though. My niece did
>    > > > > not do very well last year, but she was advanced
>    > > > > anyway. When I was
>    > > > > discussing this with my brother-in-law, he
>    > > > > reasoned that she must have > > done enough or she would not
>    have
>    > > been advanced
>    > > > > to the next grade. I
>    > > > > could not contain my laughter. I looked him in
>    > > > > the eye and asked, "Do
>    > > > > you think they would admit that they dropped the
>    > > > > ball on educating
>    > > > > your daughter and then look you in the eye and
>    > > > > ask for another $6000
>    > > > > to repeat the sixth grade? Come on!!"
>    > > > >
>    > > > > Schooling is like anything else. You only get
>    > > > > out what you put
>    > > > > in. We stay very involved with our kids
>    > > > > schooling. -proactive and
>    > > > > not reactiveand so far it has paid-off.
>    > > > >
>    > > > > Todd
>    > > > >
>    > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>    > > > > From: "Roger Pihlaja"
>    > > > > Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:22:27 -0400
>    > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
>    > > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Some Public School
>    > > > > Progra ms Work Pretty Well
>    > > > > > Here in Michigan, we have a test called the
>    > > > > Michigan Education
>    > > > > Assessment Program (MEAP). It tests skills in
>    > > > > math, science, reading,
>    > > > > writing, and critical thinking. Students that
>    > > > > score highly in the 9th,
>    > > > > 10th, 11th, & 12th grades on all sections of the
>    > > > > MEAP test can earn up
>    > > > > to $3000 towards attending a Michigan college.
>    > > > > Our older son, Daniel,
>    > > > > max ed out on the MEAP award money & it helped
>    > > > > tremendously in paying
>    > > > > for his college at Northern Michigan University
>    > > > > (NMU). So far, our
>    > > > > younger son, Gary, is on track to max out as
>    > > > > well. I've seen the MEAP
>    > > > > test & it seems like a pretty reasonable tool to
>    > > > > access a student's
>    > > > > level of development. But, the MEAP test has been
>    > > > > con troversial here
>    > > > > in Michig an as well. Lots of educators don't
>    > > > > like it for all the
>    > > > > reasons cited in the earlier posts on this
>    > > > > subject.
>    > > > > >
>    > > > > > Schools of choice also seems to work pretty
>    > > > > well here in Michigan.
>    > > > > Again, both of our sons have benefite d. We live
>    > > > > in the Meridian School
>    > > > > District, a rural area that is not very wealthy.
>    > > > > Meridian High School
>    > > > > does not have a very good vocational education
>    > > > > program. However, they
>    > > > > supplement their program by participating in a
>    > > > > magnet school program
>    > > > > with the Bay-Arenac Skill Center, located in Bay
>    > > > > City, MI. Note that
>    > > > > the Bay-Arenac Skill Center is located in another
>    > > > > county, about 30
>    > > > > miles away. The Meridian School District pays
>    > > > > tuition and provides b us
>    > > > > transportation for our students to & from the
>    > > > > Bay-Arenac Skill Center.
>    > > > > The program is a half day, 5 days/week. Meridian
>    > > > > High S chool students
>    > > > > either take their morning or afternoon classes at
>    > > > > Meridian and then
>    > > > > the other half of the school day at the
>    > > > > Bay-Arenac Skill Center.
>    > > > > Daniel took 2 years of Computer Aided Design
>    > > > > classes at the Bay-Arenac
>    > > > > Skill Center, which has been very helpful in his
>    > > > > Graphic
>    > > > > Arts/Electronic Imaging major up at NMU. Gary has
>    > > > > benefited from this
>    > > > > program even more than Daniel. Last year, Gary
>    > > > > took his first year of
>    > > > >
>    > > > === message truncated ===
>    > > >
>    > > >
>    > > >
>    > > >
>    > > > _______________________________
>    > > > Do you Yahoo!?
>    > > > Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. < BR>>
>    > > http://messenger.yahoo.com
>    > > > __________________________________________________
>    > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
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