[Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee helm

[Mary Lou Troy]

Bill,
We tend to avoid extreme heeling but it varies all over the map probably 
closer to 1 than 2. I don't think we heel more on one tack than the other 
but we'll have to pay attention next time we get some nice steady winds.

Mary Lou

At 11:32 AM 9/13/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>How much does your boat normally heel when you are sailing?
>
>Think of an analog clock face if you don't think in degrees.  If 12 is not 
>heeling at all, where does your mast point when you are heeling?  1? 2? 
>11:30? 10:45?
>
>Bill Effros
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Mary Lou Troy
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 10:12 AM
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee helm
>
>
>In light air we'll sit on the low side. In moderate to heavy winds we're on
>the high side. Last time we were out playing with the helm in light to
>moderate winds on our problematic port tack, I sat on the port side of the
>cabin top. It seemed to make a bit of difference. One of the problems we
>have in playing with this issue is the variability of winds, current and
>chop on the Chesapeake in short spaces of time.
>
>Mary Lou
>
>At 09:56 AM 9/13/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> >Mary Lou,
> >
> >Where do you sit when you're sailing?
> >
> >Bill Effros
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Mary Lou Troy
> >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> >Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 9:38 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee helm
> >
> >
> >Thanks again for everyone's comments.  I'd appreciate the collective brain
> >doing a bit more thinking about our lopsidedness.
> >
> >We did let our forestay out a notch at the beginning of the season. Keeping
> >the water tank full helps as well. We now have neutral to a slight weather
> >helm on starboard. That's an improvement but we still have mostly lee helm
> >on port so our main concern is getting her balanced. All measurements
> >indicate that the mast is straight and centered.
> >
> >Roger may have a point about trim as Fretless tends to list slightly to
> >starboard in the slip even with the heavy Honda 8 on the port side of the
> >stern (all that weight (80 lbs) back there could be a part of the issue as
> >well). There's usually seven gallons of gas under the port bench seat and
> >three one gallon jugs of water under the settee in the cabin as well. The
> >battery is under the v-berth to port next to the water tank which overlaps
> >the centerline but is slightly to port. I suppose that may not be enough to
> >overcome all those beverages in the cooler. I think rebalancing is our next
> >step - maybe we'll try moving the spare anchor and chain under the settee.
> >May need to find some lead weights or something.
> >
> >Mary Lou
> >
> >
> >
> >At 07:57 AM 9/6/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> > >Mary Lou,
> > >
> > >How does Fretless sit on her lines when the boat is tied up to the dock?
> > >With no one on board, the boat should should be level on the waterline 
> from
> > >side-to-side and slightly down by the bow, maybe about an inch.  With a
> > >couple of adults in the cockpit, the boat should sit level on the 
> waterline
> > >in terms of fore/aft trim.  Before we can say whether or not Fretless is
> > >truely right wing, you will need to shift ballast around until you achieve
> > >the above static trim condition.  If the boat still wants to turn right
> > >after these adjustments; then, you definitely have a problem.  I defer to
> > >Stan as far as likely causes in this case.
> > >
> > >Roger Pihlaja
> > >S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "David Walker" <david.walker5 at comcast.net>
> > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 7:06 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee helm
> > >
> > >
> > > > Mary Lou,
> > > >
> > > > There are probably many ways to balance a Rhodes.  At around 15 knots I
> > >find
> > > > that combination of about 120% genoa and the IMF reefed to just
> > exposing a
> > > > sliver of the R22 emblem balances the boat very well with respect 
> to helm
> > > > and heeling, especially singled handed.  I was out yesterday in this
> > > > condition and handily beat a Catalina 22 under its full sail with 4 
> crew.
> > > > They were having trouble keeping the boat on its lines with the sails
> > > > properly trimmed.  In general, I find that less sail, properly 
> trimmed is
> > > > better than more sailed trimmed to spill wind.
> > > >
> > > >  My Rhodes also seems to sail better with more forward sail area than
> > aft.
> > > > I most assuredly looks funny that way, but the helm is neutral as 
> long as
> > > > the heel is moderate.
> > > >
> > > > Dave W
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Steve Alm" <salm at mn.rr.com>
> > > > To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 5:14 PM
> > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee helm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Mary Lou,
> > > > > Yes, I said what Stan said I said.  I raked the mast back by 
> extending
> > >the
> > > > > forestay.  It was about 2" or more--sorry I can't be more
> > precise.  That
> > > > > brings the Center of Effros  8-)  aft and yields more weather
> > helm.  But
> > > > > that alone wasn't enough.  I started experimenting with the depth 
> of my
> > > > > centerboard and discovered I could create more weather helm by
> > lessening
> > > > the
> > > > > depth of board.  I have the diamond board and it seems that 
> raising it
> > > > > brings the center of lateral resistance forward, increasing weather
> > >helm.
> > > > > The amount of board I use varies with the wind speed, boat speed and
> > >point
> > > > > of sail.  I'm still learning so I can't be very specific about that
> > >other
> > > > > than to say that the faster the boat speed, the less board I 
> use.  But
> > >if
> > > > > I'm on a close reach, that probably makes me lose some of my 
> footing to
> > > > the
> > > > > lee but I weigh that against the comfort of the helm.  I just play
> > >around
> > > > > with it until I'm happy.  Although I can't help you with the 
> republican
> > > > > tendency of Fretless--that's a head-scratcher -- I'd suggest making
> > > > > adjustments to your board and see if that helps.  Also, I 
> sometimes get
> > > > lee
> > > > > helm in light air which changes over to weather helm in the 
> gusts.  The
> > > > more
> > > > > the boat heels, the greater the weather helm. And lastly, I 
> rarely reef
> > >in
> > > > > my IMF main unless it's really blowing.  I'll reef in the 175% 
> genny to
> > > > > about 90% before I reef the main.  That happens when the winds are in
> > >the
> > > > > upper teens.  With winds much higher than that, I'm usually at 
> the dock
> > > > > having a cocktail.  8-)  Speaking of which, isn't it five o'clock
> > > > somewhere?
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope this helps,
> > > > > Slim
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/5/04 1:48 PM, "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > a few thoughts if it is really a problem   Slim raked his mast 
> aft by
> > > > > > increasing the jib stay about 2" he says.  the new main with a 
> little
> > > > more
> > > > > > sail area might help but that is a big investment.  If you are 
> handy,
> > > > putting
> > > > > > a small extra fin forward of the keel might tip the scale. Also, I
> > >think
> > > > you
> > > > > > are on the right track about more weight forward.  I brought my
> > >thinking
> > > > on
> > > > > > this up to the List on two occasions but drew a blanc response each
> > > > time. I
> > > > > > think more bow in the water is akin to moving the keel (center of
> > > > effort)
> > > > > > forward and easy to test by having a lot of guests sit up on 
> the bow
> > >and
> > > > see
> > > > > > what happens to the tiller helm.  Hiring crew to sit on the bow 
> might
> > >be
> > > > a
> > > > > > patentable upgrade - let us know the test results.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > stan/gbi
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Mary Lou Troy
> > > > > > To: stan
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 2:18 PM
> > > > > > Subject: you are welcome and turning right (was Re: book)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Stan,
> > > > > > You are very welcome for the book. I do not have 1,000 more ;-)
> > If you
> > > > do want
> > > > > > additional copies you'll have to contact Stan Grayson about it. 
> He'll
> > > > sell me
> > > > > > additional copies for "personal use" at a 40% discount which is 
> close
> > >to
> > > > what
> > > > > > you can get from Amazon. I'm pleased with the book (and hope 
> you are
> > > > too).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As for my cryptic note about Fretless being too right - We're not
> > >going
> > > > > > anywhere but Fred and I suspect you may have sold us a republican
> > >boat.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As you know we have had lee helm issues over the years. Using your
> > > > suggestions
> > > > > > we have been able to produce a nice neutral to slight weather 
> helm -
> > >on
> > > > > > starboard tack only. On port tack the adjustments have only
> > produced a
> > > > > > reduction in lee helm. After making sure the mast was centered
> > and the
> > > > rigging
> > > > > > moderately snug it finally occurred to us that what the boat was
> > doing
> > > > was
> > > > > > always wanting to turn right. Last time we had her out we seemed
> > to be
> > > > able to
> > > > > > reduce this tendency slightly and remove a bit of the lee helm by
> > > > putting my
> > > > > > weight amidships on the port cabin top so it is possible that 
> we are
> > > > still
> > > > > > dealing with a weight distribution issue. We'll continue to
> > >investigate
> > > > but
> > > > > > are wondering if you have any other suggestions for what we might
> > >tinker
> > > > with
> > > > > > to produce a more middle of the rhode boat.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mary Lou
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 04:44 PM 8/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   MLT -
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   How nice of you to send the book - need 1,000 more.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   does a little too right mean we are loosing you? - hope not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   stan/gbi
> > > > > > __________________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
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>
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