[Rhodes22-list] Outboards
Steve
rhodes2282 at yahoo.com
Fri Sep 24 07:00:54 EDT 2004
What was I thinking!! Never leave Without Beer. TGIF -
been a long week.
Steve
--- Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> That away, Roger. Seamenship, now that something a
> sailor can depend on when the skills have been
> aquired. And I know you have them. Excellent!
> Steve
>
> PS - I never leave the dock with beer also:-)
>
>
> --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> > Steve,
> >
> > Well let's see, you say my engine is dead with no
> > hope for repair. There's
> > no wind, so I'm in no danger. If I'm being pushed
> > somewhere I don't like by
> > a current, I think I'll drop anchor. If the
> water's
> > too deep to anchor, I
> > think I'll slow my drift with my sea anchor. Did
> my
> > ship's VHF + handheld
> > VHF radios + cell phone also quit working? If
> not,
> > I guess I'll call for
> > help & crack a beer while I wait for it to arrive.
>
> > Am I in a busy channel?
> > Well, then I won't have very long to wait.
> Assuming
> > no one is around & I
> > can't call for help either, I guess I'll just
> crack
> > a beer & wait for the
> > wind to pick up. I have food, water, beer, a
> place
> > to sleep, a place to
> > cook, a stereo to listen to tunes, usually books
> to
> > read, & a porta-potti on
> > board. What else do I need? It wouldn't be the
> > 1st time I've altered my
> > sailing schedule to suit the circumstances. It
> also
> > wouldn't be the 1st
> > time I've sailed up to a dock. What's the big
> deal?
> >
> > You shouldn't get to depending upon your engine
> too
> > much. Remember, the
> > Rhodes 22 can be sailed in much worse conditions
> > than it can be motored in.
> > This is advise from a guy who upgraded his
> outboard
> > from a long shaft to an
> > extra long shaft when I bought the Honda 8 just to
> > get a little more heavy
> > weather motoring capability.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:54 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> >
> >
> > > Well, Roger, my 1982 Rhodes came with a 1982
> Honda
> > 2
> > > cycle. Its never been in the shop, uses maybe a
> > tank
> > > of gas a year and if it ever does mess up (on
> the
> > > water or at dock)I can fix anything myself.
> > >
> > > Now say your stop working on the water. Based
> on
> > the
> > > below, it due to malfunction. Say there is no
> > wind.
> > > Can't raise sail. Nobody around but say John
> > Kerry
> > > and he won't help you:-) How are you going to
> get
> > > back to the dock? You have plenty of tool but
> > what od
> > > you do. All those wires running all over the
> > place,
> > > better not mess them up; it won't start forsure
> > then.
> > > Puzzleing is it not!
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > >
> > > > Let's see, I've been using my Honda 8 from the
> > > > spring of 1996 to the present
> > > > & my Honda 9.9 from the spring of 2000 to the
> > > > present. That's just
> > > > finishing 9 seasons with one engine & 4
> seasons
> > with
> > > > the other. I had to
> > > > replace a water pump impellor on the Honda 9.9
> > when
> > > > Gary ran it dry & the
> > > > dealer had to rebuild the lower unit when Gary
> > ran
> > > > it backwards into an
> > > > underwater concrete launch ramp. I replaced
> the
> > > > water pump impellor myself.
> > > > Other than that, these two engines have never
> > been
> > > > touched. They both start
> > > > on the 1st or 2nd pull, don't leak oil, don't
> > smoke,
> > > > & in general have been
> > > > wonderful machines to live with. They just
> > work.
> > > >
> > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:14 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Roger
> > > > > Base on the below; I would say the same
> about
> > you.
> > > > > When you go out on the water and your motor
> > tear
> > > > up
> > > > > and even you can't fix it. Then preach the
> > below.
> > > > > Steve
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Bill,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My old Evinrude 6 hp 2-cycle outbaord got
> > about
> > > > 6
> > > > > > nm/gal at 5 knots. My
> > > > > > present Honda 8 hp 4-cycle outboard gets
> > about
> > > > 10
> > > > > > nm/gal at 5 knots. Same
> > > > > > boat, same lake, same conditions, just
> about
> > 2X
> > > > > > better mileage. There's
> > > > > > real world data, Bill. What sort of
> mileage
> > do
> > > > you
> > > > > > get?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The facts I cited in my FAQ were published
> > in
> > > > peer
> > > > > > reviewed scientific
> > > > > > journals & government agency reports by
> > > > qualified
> > > > > > researchers. I expect you
> > > > > > to adhere to the same standard of
> evidence.
> > The
> > > > > > list will be waiting with
> > > > > > baited breath for you to back up your
> claims
> > > > with
> > > > > > good science. If it turns
> > > > > > out that you can; then, I'll be the 1st to
> > > > > > apologise. Until then, you have
> > > > > > nothing but a bunch of unsubstantiated
> > claims &
> > > > some
> > > > > > charming anecdotal
> > > > > > stories.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The trouble with the internet is that
> anyone
> > can
> > > > set
> > > > > > themselves up as an
> > > > > > "expert" and claim anything with no
> > substance
> > > > behind
> > > > > > it. In this case, you
> > > > > > are spreading false information regarding
> > > > 4-cycle
> > > > > > reliability & the 2-cycle
> > > > > > vs. 4-cycle emissions issues. On this
> > issue,
> > > > you
> > > > > > just simply WRONG!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You can wait until after the election or
> > until
> > > > the
> > > > > > cows come home. I'm
> > > > > > betting you won't be able to back up your
> > claims
> > > > > > sir.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> > > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 9:20 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Roger,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't have time for this right now,
> but
> > I
> > > > will
> > > > > > get back to it after the
> > > > > > election. If I forget, I'm counting on
> you
> > to
> > > > bring
> > > > > > it up again the next
> > > > > > time I mention 2 cycle engines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Like many things in this world, this
> issue
> > is
> > > > not
> > > > > > what it seems.
> > > > > > Legislation was passed that benefits large
> > > > > > corporations at the expense of
> > > > > > everyone else without providing
> substantial
> > > > benefits
> > > > > > to the environment that
> > > > > > couldn't be achieved at far lower cost.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And yes, I can back that up with "good
> > > > science".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm with Ed on this one. Many of the
> > "facts"
> > > > you
> > > > > > have cited in the past
> > > > > > come from research institutes funded by
> > engine
> > > > > > manufacturers. The tested
> > > > > > engines cannot be duplicated in the real
> > world.
> > > > > > Your engine does not go
> > > > > > twice as far on a gallon of gas than mine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'll spend more time on this when I have
> > it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004
> 10:16
> > PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One defective engine from Nissan has
> > nothing
> > > > to
> > > > > > do with average emissions
> > > > > > > from 4-cycle vs. 2-cycle engines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill, for every one of your amusing
> > anecdotes
> > > > > > about people having troubles
> > > > > > > with their 4-cycle outboards, I can cite
> > you
> > > > four
> > > > > > other stories about
> > > > > > > 4-cycle owners that are happy with 2X
> > better
> > > > fuel
> > > > > > economy, less noise, no
> > > > > > > smoke, not having to mix oil with the
> gas,
> > > > etc.
> > > > > > You know, I've talked
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > mechanics at local marinas, did a search
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > internet, looked in
> > > > > > Consumer
> > > > > > > Reports, looked in the Consumer Product
> > Recall
> > > > > > archieves. I can't find
> > > > > > any
> > > > > > > hard evidence about the problems you
> keep
> > > > harping
> > > > > > about regarding 4-cycle
> > > > > > > reliability. In my FAQ which I sent to
> > you, I
> > > > > > cited the emission &
> > > > > > > toxicology studies that led up to the
> > current
> > > > > > emssion regulations. You
> > > > > > > rejected it all as "glurge". If the
> > 4-cycle
> > > > > > outboards were really having
> > > > > > > the sorts of problems you claim on a
> > > > widespread
> > > > > > basis; then, shouldn't
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > some hard data somewhere? Well, now its
> > your
> > > > turn
> > > > > > sir, I challenge you
> > > > > > > to cite us some hard data on this issue
> -
> > a
> > > > > > service bulletin from one of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > outboard manufacturers, a consumer
> product
> > > > safety
> > > > > > commision report, a
> > > > > > > reputable survey - something other than
> > your
> > > > own
> > > > > > experience.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > By the way, even if your claims about
> > having
> > > > to
> > > > > > mix additives with 4-cycle
> > > > > > > fuel were true, which I dispute, the
> > 4-cycle
> > > > > > engine emission data shows it
> > > > > > > emits about 1/10 the unburned
> hydrocarbons
> > of
> > > > a
> > > > > > 2-cycle engine. So, even
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > these additives were required in 4-cycle
> > fuel,
> > > > the
> > > > > > 4-cycle engine would
> > > > > > > still do a much better job of
> incinerating
> > > > them
> > > > > > than 2-cycle engines do.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill, it's time to put up or shut up. I
> > say
> > > > you
> > > > > > don't know what you are
> > > > > > > talking about. Show us the data to
> prove
> > that
> > > > you
> > > > > > do. Until you can
> > > > > > > show us this data, I'm going to bring
> this
> > > > issue
> > > > > > up every time you say
> > > > > > > anything about 2-cycle vs. 4-cycle
> > engines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > > S/V dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> > > > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:34
> > PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That's "abated breath" I hit the send
> > key
> > > > when
> > > > > > aiming for the save key.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Keep us posted on the Nissan. I don't
> > know
> > > > if
> > > > > > anyone else has a Nissan
> > > > > > > 4-stroke. I was considering them, also.
>
> > Is
> > > > it
> > > > > > quiet?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Roger, not to go round on this again,
> > but my
> > > > > > consistent point has been
> > > > > > > that Ron with his supposedly
> > environmentally
> > > > sound
> > > > > > engine has just dumped
> > > > > > > more oil into the environment in 2 hours
> > than
> > > > I
> > > > > > have dumped into the
> > > > > > > environment with my 2 stroke in 2 years.
>
> > The
> > > > > > dealer reports this was not
> > > > > > an
> > > > > > > isolated case. Many people on the list
> > with
> > > > > > 4-strokes are dumping oil
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > > their gas tanks to ensure proper
> > lubrication
> > > > of
> > > > > > their engines.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As everyone knows, I can go off on a
> > > > right-wing
> > > > > > screed on this issue,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > I am trying to restrain myself.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I know everyone is trying to do the
> > right
> > > > thing.
> > > > > > Sometimes that impulse
> > > > > > > leads to bad policy, bad laws, and bad
> > > > decisions.
> > > > > > What does Ron do now?
> > > > > > > They're not going to give him a new
> > engine.
> > > > And
> > > > > > maybe a new one would be
> > > > > > > just as bad as the one he's got.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What do I do now? I was thinking of
> > getting
> > > > a
> > > > > > 4-stroke, too, but I
> > > > > > wanted
> > > > > > > to see what happened with Ron.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I WAS waiting with 'bated breath.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill Effros
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: Bill Effros
> > > > > > > > To: Ronald Lipton ; The Rhodes 22 mail
> > list
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004
> 6:21
> > PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I believe it's a contraction for
> "abated
> > > > breth"
> > > > > > 'bated breath.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill Effros
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: Ronald Lipton
> > > > > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004
> 6:09
> > PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For those of you waiting with baited
> > beath
> > > > (does
> > > > > > this means worms
> > > > > > > > hanging out of your mouth?). I ended
> up
> > > > buying
> > > > > > the Nissan 6 four
> > > > > > > > cycle. I could not find a reasonably
> > > > priced
> > > > > > used 2 cycle long shaft.
> > > > > > > > The Monroe Harbormaster was very
> > > > accomodating
> > > > > > ferrying me out
> > > > > > > > to the boat and helping me remove the
> > old
> > > > engine
> > > > > > and install the new
> > > > > > > > one.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The story does not yet have a happy
> > ending
> > > > ...
> > > > > > the new Nissan
> > > > > > > > is burning oil, having emptied it's
> > resovoir
> > > > > > after about 2 hours of
> > > > > > > > running and with a thick cloud of
> smoke
> > on
> > > > > > startup. I was told by
> > > > > > > > the dealer that some of the engines
> "do
> > > > that"
> > > > > > until they are broken
> > > > > > > > in - but I am sceptical. Hopefully I
> > can
> > > > keep
> > > > > > it running well
> > > > > > > > enough to allow me to finish the
> season
> > > > before
> > > > > > it is serviced, but
> > > > > > > > I still have the outboard blues.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > for Stan:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Go IU, beat Purdue. ( It might happen
> > > > someday)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ron
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________
> > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote
> > today!
> > > > > http://vote.yahoo.com
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote
> today!
> > > http://vote.yahoo.com
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
More information about the Rhodes22-list
mailing list