[Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?

Bill Effros bill at effros.com
Wed Aug 24 12:38:18 EDT 2005


Dave,

Everything helps.  Thanks for jumping in. 

I don't think it is possible to replicate what Brad is doing, because I 
don't think even Brad knows what he's doing.

This is just an idea.  It may not even be a good idea.  But if the 
buyers are willing to buy these products, and Stan is willing to control 
the output, it's worth trying to see if we can put it together.

As far as I know, there are no hidden agendas, and no "not invented 
here" issues.  This is an attempt at a community-wide solution to a 
community-wide problem.  Everyone is urged to help in any way they feel 
they can.

Bill Effros



Bradley, David wrote:

>Bill, we have a neighbor in Old Greenwich who is the head of ops for a
>significant US apparel maker and he manages all their China sourcing.
>I'll ask him for some advice.
>
>I'll also ask the head of our China sales unit - he's a software guy but
>has been in Singapore for the last 15 years - for suggestions on brokers
>who could select a piecework company that would do a small order and
>enter into a relationship.  
>
>I don't want to replicate what Brad is up to but will be happy to
>collect additional info.
>
>Dave Bradley
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] 
>Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:03 AM
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>
>whatever it is the answer is "yes"
>
>stan/gbi
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>To: "R22 List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:56 AM
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>
>
>  
>
>>Dave,
>>
>>The truth of the matter is that I'm not sure about the need to improve
>>    
>>
>the 
>  
>
>>boom room, either.  My sense is that if 4 or 5 were built now to the
>>    
>>
>same 
>  
>
>>specifications that would be the all time Boom Room production record.
>>
>>Without exception, everyone who has one loves it.  Some have boom
>>    
>>
>rooms. 
>  
>
>>Some have Bimini rooms.  Some have modified tarps slung over the boom.
>>    
>>
>I 
>  
>
>>have also discussed with Stan the feasibility of using the stays
>>    
>>
>coupled 
>  
>
>>with posts inserted into the Captain's Chair sockets; or using the
>>    
>>
>topping 
>  
>
>>lift and boom to hoist a tent-like structure 10 feet above the cockpit
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>space.
>>
>>I think Stan is a truly gifted engineer, and probably the best
>>    
>>
>sailboat 
>  
>
>>engineer in the world.  If I'm not sure I've got a better answer, I
>>    
>>
>always 
>  
>
>>go with Stan's approach.
>>
>>Stan's central point regarding boom rooms seems to be that even for
>>    
>>
>people 
>  
>
>>who use it frequently, boom room deployment will account for less than
>>    
>>
>25% 
>  
>
>>of the total time spent on the boat.  You don't want to mess up the
>>    
>>
>other 
>  
>
>>75% of the time, and the actual sailing, trying to deal with
>>    
>>
>paraphernalia 
>  
>
>>you don't really need in the first place.
>>
>>I think he is right about this point.  I have rejected the Bimini room
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>approach (used by Roger) because I don't want to carry around a Bimini
>>    
>>
>all 
>  
>
>>the time, nor do I want to stow a Bimini at home when not in use, nor
>>    
>>
>do I 
>  
>
>>want to impulsively decide to sleep over in the boat, only to find the
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>boom room isn't there.
>>
>>There are many structural alternatives to Stan's boom room, as shown
>>    
>>
>in 
>  
>
>>the MacGregor boom room pictures posted by Jim Bunnell 
>>(http://www.dowsar.com/images/26mde_l.jpg 
>>http://www.dowsar.com/images/canvas_l.jpg) but these immediately raise
>>    
>>
>the 
>  
>
>>windage issues mentioned by Bruce.  It is my sense that Stan's boom
>>    
>>
>rooms 
>  
>
>>can withstand moderate windage, and I am disinclined to try to improve
>>    
>>
>on 
>  
>
>>something that we already know works--especially if it is something
>>    
>>
>Stan 
>  
>
>>built that has gone through several generations to get to where it is.
>>
>>My guess, and this is just a guess, is that when push comes to shove
>>    
>>
>Stan 
>  
>
>>can't make a nickel on his boom room.  He can't sew them himself.  He 
>>doesn't make enough of them to teach people to make them in his own
>>    
>>
>shop. 
>  
>
>>And when he looks for ways to give himself more margin, his suppliers 
>>suggest cutting corners, and cheapening the product--something Stan is
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>constitutionally unable to do.  If he raises the price to the point
>>    
>>
>where 
>  
>
>>he has a reasonable profit,  nobody buys them.
>>
>>I think the trick for us, and I don't know if we can do it, is to try
>>    
>>
>to 
>  
>
>>get Stan's existing product built to his specifications at a price
>>    
>>
>where 
>  
>
>>he can make a profit on each one sold.  If anyone can suggest
>>    
>>
>improvements 
>  
>
>>to the product, we should ask Stan to review the ideas.  It will only
>>    
>>
>pay 
>  
>
>>for Stan to spend even a minute thinking about this if the end result
>>    
>>
>is 
>  
>
>>that he can make money for his time and experience.
>>
>>If you have any time, please look around in Shanghai.  If you have 
>>business contacts in China, please ask for their help in locating 
>>suppliers.
>>This idea should work, the only question is whether we have the
>>    
>>
>resources 
>  
>
>>to help Stan make it work.  I don't know the answer, but if we use our
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>heads, and those of us with contacts reach out, maybe we can at least
>>    
>>
>know 
>  
>
>>if this is a possible partial solution to Stan's Lament.
>>
>>Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Bradley, David wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Hi, Bill.  I wasn't sure from the earlier mails on this whether there
>>>      
>>>
>is
>  
>
>>>still a need to improve the boom room design and prototype it, or get
>>>the manufacturing cost down, or both.  It seems like Stan would need
>>>      
>>>
>to
>  
>
>>>be pretty set on the design before setting up the supplier
>>>      
>>>
>arrangement,
>  
>
>>>and the start up costs might be significant.  I'm happy to buy
>>>      
>>>
>whatever
>  
>
>>>it is GB is offering when the time comes, and if committing up front
>>>helps to set up a new arrangement I'm happy to do so.
>>>
>>>I'll be in Shanghai next week.  Can't imagine there is anything I can
>>>      
>>>
>do
>  
>
>>>there to help, but let me know if you think of something.  I'll let
>>>      
>>>
>you
>  
>
>>>know if I see any cool Chinese boom rooms.
>>>
>>>Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] Sent: Wednesday, August
>>>      
>>>
>24, 
>  
>
>>>2005 1:26 AM
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>
>>>I would be interested as long as Stan is the Exclusive importer of the
>>>products.  All the details, margins, engineering and productions are
>>>      
>>>
>in
>  
>
>>>the
>>>Stan & Brad realm,  Me, I just buy 'em as long it has the designer
>>>label...Boat accessories and fashions by Stan Spitzer......(boy, talk
>>>about
>>>Old Navy)
>>>
>>>Chris G
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>>>To: "R22 List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 9:21 PM
>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Brad Haslett emailed me off-list regarding our discussion of boom
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>rooms,
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>etc. which he has been following while vacationing in China.
>>>>
>>>>Brad asked if anyone would have an interest in his exploring Chinese
>>>>manufacture of Boom Rooms, Sails, Pop-Top Enclosures, Cockpit and
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Cabin
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Cushions, Cockpit Fill in Boards, -- all the little stuff the Chinese
>>>>can make for a fraction of what it costs to manufacture in the US.
>>>>
>>>>I have not asked Stan about this, and I don't think Brad has either,
>>>>however it goes without saying that if Stan doesn't like the idea,
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Brad
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>is not going to do it.  Stan would make money on every item made in
>>>>China, and whatever he says is his cut, that's what he'll get.  There
>>>>will be no negotiation on this.
>>>>
>>>>But before he even begins the project, Brad wants to know how the
>>>>ultimate consumers feel about this idea.  If Brad can set up
>>>>manufacturing in China with Stan's approval, would Rhodes owners buy
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Chinese made products?
>>>>
>>>>Stan would have to provide the original patterns and specifications,
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>but
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>that is all Stan would have to do.  Brad believes he can set up a
>>>>reliable manufacturing operation in China that will produce any of
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>these
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>products to Stan's satisfaction at a lower cost than Stan can get
>>>>        
>>>>
>them
>  
>
>>>>produced in the US.
>>>>
>>>>5 of us indicated an interest in Boom Rooms.  Me, Chris, Dave, Bruce,
>>>>and maybe Bob.  (Did I miss anyone?)  I would be willing to be the
>>>>guinea pig on this. How do the rest of you feel?  Bob, if we could
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>bring
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>the price down, at what price would you be a player?
>>>>
>>>>What about people who want Pop Top Enclosures, or Battened IMF sails,
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>or
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>cockpit fill in cushions?  Is there a price for these items that
>>>>        
>>>>
>would
>  
>
>>>>prompt you to take money out of your pocket and put it on the table?
>>>>
>>>>Look at Stan's options prices on his web site
>>>>(http://www.rhodes22.com/super_options.html).  Is there something you
>>>>would actually buy if the price were lower?  If so, what would the
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>price
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>have to be?
>>>>
>>>>Brad is returning to the US shortly, and doesn't have much time to
>>>>        
>>>>
>see
>  
>
>>>>if he can set up something like this.  If you think this is a
>>>>        
>>>>
>terrible
>  
>
>>>>idea, please speak up quickly so we all know where we stand.
>>>>
>>>>I think this is an interesting idea if Brad can actually do it.  It
>>>>        
>>>>
>is
>  
>
>>>>something we can all do to put more money in Stan's pocket right
>>>>        
>>>>
>away,
>  
>
>>>>while buying parts for our boats at a lower cost.  It's a
>>>>        
>>>>
>win-win...if
>  
>
>>>>Brad can pull it off.
>>>>
>>>>Please note.  Brad is a commercial airline pilot who no longer owns a
>>>>Rhodes 22.  There is nothing in this deal for him.  He will always
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>make
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>more money flying an airplane than getting involved in a crazy
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>sailboat
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>spare parts Chinese manufacturing scheme.  He just happens to be in
>>>>China right now, saw Stan's Lament, and asked if there was anything
>>>>        
>>>>
>he
>  
>
>>>>could do to help.
>>>>
>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>  
>


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