[Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
Bill Effros
bill at effros.com
Sat Aug 27 13:47:16 EDT 2005
Wally,
Any pictures?
Same comments as made to Slim. You both seem to have gone in the same
direction, with the same satisfactory results. If you think these
problems through for me, I'm just as happy to pay you for your time and
effort as I am to pay Stan. Does Jenny want to make some money on your
sewing machine? I'll pay you in Bean Bag chairs if you like.
Again, I'm really serious here. I want something like what you've got.
I think I should and will pay Stan for his contributions. Brad is in
China trying to work out the manufacturing, but if we can do it closer
to home, and develop a superior product, that is what I would want to do.
It would appear that I have greatly overestimated the cost of
materials. That should leave enough room for labor, profit, royalties,
and a much more attractive price so more people would purchase this option.
Bill Effros
Wally Buck wrote:
> Bill,
>
> Tarp was purchased from Northern Tool per Roger's endorsement. It is
> cordura nylon (something like that) 8 X 10. It was $25 and is 3 years
> old and I would say it is in perfect shape. It shed rainwater quite
> well plus I sprayed it with some waterproofing stuff I use on my
> tents. I would say it eliminates 95% of dew in the cockpit. It is just
> a little short going aft stopping a couple of inches short of back
> stays. No coverage aft of back stays. I drape over boom and bungie all
> 4 corners. I use tent poles over boom for support; it looks like a
> covered wagon. The whole thing rigs in about 2 mintues. I have boom in
> highest position slightly raised so you can stand under tarp. If it is
> actually raining I slacken topping lift to help flow drip aft. I lash
> down if windy conditions. If real windy I don't use. This provides no
> bug protection. Bugs are not a problem for us. If they were I have
> thought of purchasing mosquito netting that is sold to drape over
> queen or king size bed. I think for 50 bucks i could find something to
> cover poptop and cockpit.
>
> Wally
>
>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>> Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 09:07:06 -0400
>>
>> Wally,
>>
>> We will be able to get what we are willing to pay for. The question
>> is, what are we willing to pay for? A Multilith is a printing
>> press. But if someone says they need a printing press, the first
>> thing you would want to know is the quality of printing press they
>> have in mind, and what they are willing to pay.
>>
>> Your tarp is a "boom room". I think I need more than that--but maybe
>> not. Maybe what I want costs more than I am willing to pay. Maybe,
>> for what it costs, your tarp is exactly what I want.
>>
>> Please tell me more about your tarp. What material is it made out
>> of? I assume it is supported by the boom. Does it tie down to
>> something? What? Does some dew get into it? How much? What about
>> bugs? Do you raise your boom with your topping lift when you are
>> under your tarp?
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>
>>> MJM - I didn't mean to over simplify. Initial start up costs and
>>> limited volume doesn't allow the costs to be spread around to
>>> thousands or millions of buyers. That can be a problem. That is why
>>> I didn't name a price. I have a feeling once you determine all of
>>> the start up costs there will not be much savings.
>>>
>>> Not having the boat there creates issues but most of the stuff we
>>> are talking about is not that exacting. Once patterns and templates
>>> are developed producing boom room and pop top enclosures should not
>>> be that big of a deal. As always the devil is in the details.
>>>
>>> Wally
>>>
>>>> From: michael meltzer <michaelmeltzer at yahoo.com>
>>>> Reply-To: mjm at michaelmeltzer.com,The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:50:52 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>
>>>> You guy are missing the bigest problem with offshore
>>>> boat work, They do not have the boat!!!, You will send
>>>> them spec's and return they will be expecting you to
>>>> pay for, if something is off, your are stuck, the seat
>>>> cushions are not to bad, the templet is pretty stright
>>>> forward, but execpt that someone is going to "eat" the
>>>> coast of a few rounds until they are right. Than a
>>>> really problem keeping Quauiuily control up. CAD/CMA a
>>>> real design to work from??? The boom room with be a
>>>> nightmare with out a boat to work with. someone is
>>>> going to eat alot of money before that one is right
>>>> and than you beeter hope that who ever made it is
>>>> still with the firm for the nrext order or prototype.
>>>> The run quaniantys are to low to do the job right.
>>>> -mjm, The problem is simple project managment.
>>>>
>>>> --- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Bill, It is hard to guess what I would want to
>>>> > spend. You need to determine
>>>> > production and shipping costs. From there add the
>>>> > desired mark up. That is
>>>> > the price. I am sure GB does not want to carry large
>>>> > cost for inventory. I
>>>> > would suspect that prices could be quoted for
>>>> > different sizes. Get quotes
>>>> > for 5, 10 25, each. I have no idea who to go to for
>>>> > "quotes" in China but
>>>> > it sounds like there might be folks on this list
>>>> > that do.
>>>> >
>>>> > Initially I would want new cockpit cushions with
>>>> > fill in. Also cabin
>>>> > cushions. I am considering doing this myself. I am
>>>> > also getting price
>>>> > locally. One drawbck to doing them myself is the
>>>> > most likely will look like
>>>> > crap. Having them done locally means I can test foam
>>>> > and not pay shipping.
>>>> > Ordering from GB means they will fit right but I
>>>> > don't want standard foam.
>>>> > In the cabin I want to go with 3 inches of foam with
>>>> > 1 inch of memory foam
>>>> > glued on top side. I have seen cushions made this
>>>> > way and they are great for
>>>> > sleeping and sitting. I am still working on best
>>>> > foam for cockpit (with fill
>>>> > in).
>>>> >
>>>> > Wally
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > >From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>> > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>> > >Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:02:44 -0400
>>>> > >
>>>> > >Wally,
>>>> > >
>>>> > >Can you put numbers on your desires? I mean this
>>>> > quite seriously. I know
>>>> > >you use your boat, and I know you want to be fair
>>>> > to Stan. At what price
>>>> > >would you buy various items from Stan? Which items
>>>> > would you be most
>>>> > >interested in? What would you be willing to pay?
>>>> > You will not be held to
>>>> > >any of this--it is just part of an exercise to see
>>>> > if what we all want can
>>>> > >be done.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >Bill Effros
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >Wally Buck wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > >>If you are asking me if I have a problem
>>>> > purchasing Chinese made boat
>>>> > >>parts from Stan ....If I place my order and send
>>>> > payment to Stan the
>>>> > >>source doesn't concern me too much. I would prefer
>>>> > to buy "USA" but I have
>>>> > >>owned many imported cars.
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>You also asked if price is holding me back from
>>>> > purchasing boat goodies
>>>> > >>from GB. The answer is yes. I would love to have
>>>> > new cabin cushions, new
>>>> > >>cockpit cushions, cokcpit fill-in cushions,
>>>> > pop-top enclosure, bimini. The
>>>> > >>boom room really doesn't interest me. We overnight
>>>> > quite a bit. If it is
>>>> > >>stormy we go in cabin. If it is nice we like the
>>>> > view from cockpit. We
>>>> > >>also swim and fish. I am trying to decide if I
>>>> > should spend the money on
>>>> > >>my R22 or perhaps sell and use the cash from all
>>>> > of those upgrades for
>>>> > >>.......
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>I forgot, add the battened IMF to my wish list as
>>>> > well.
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>Wally
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>> > >>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> > >>>To: R22 List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> > >>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>> > >>>Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:21:37 -0400
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>Brad Haslett emailed me off-list regarding our
>>>> > discussion of boom rooms,
>>>> > >>>etc. which he has been following while
>>>> > vacationing in China.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>Brad asked if anyone would have an interest in
>>>> > his exploring Chinese
>>>> > >>>manufacture of Boom Rooms, Sails, Pop-Top
>>>> > Enclosures, Cockpit and Cabin
>>>> > >>>Cushions, Cockpit Fill in Boards, -- all the
>>>> > little stuff the Chinese can
>>>> > >>>make for a fraction of what it costs to
>>>> > manufacture in the US.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>I have not asked Stan about this, and I don't
>>>> > think Brad has either,
>>>> > >>>however it goes without saying that if Stan
>>>> > doesn't like the idea, Brad
>>>> > >>>is not going to do it. Stan would make money on
>>>> > every item made in
>>>> > >>>China, and whatever he says is his cut, that's
>>>> > what he'll get. There
>>>> > >>>will be no negotiation on this.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>But before he even begins the project, Brad wants
>>>> > to know how the
>>>> > >>>ultimate consumers feel about this idea. If Brad
>>>> > can set up
>>>> > >>>manufacturing in China with Stan's approval,
>>>> > would Rhodes owners buy the
>>>> > >>>Chinese made products?
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>Stan would have to provide the original patterns
>>>> > and specifications, but
>>>> > >>>that is all Stan would have to do. Brad believes
>>>> > he can set up a
>>>> > >>>reliable manufacturing operation in China that
>>>> > will produce any of these
>>>> > >>>products to Stan's satisfaction at a lower cost
>>>> > than Stan can get them
>>>> > >>>produced in the US.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>5 of us indicated an interest in Boom Rooms. Me,
>>>> > Chris, Dave, Bruce, and
>>>> > >>>maybe Bob. (Did I miss anyone?) I would be
>>>> > willing to be the guinea pig
>>>> > >>>on this. How do the rest of you feel? Bob, if we
>>>> > could bring the price
>>>> > >>>down, at what price would you be a player?
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>What about people who want Pop Top Enclosures, or
>>>> > Battened IMF sails, or
>>>> > >>>cockpit fill in cushions? Is there a price for
>>>> > these items that would
>>>> > >>>prompt you to take money out of your pocket and
>>>> > put it on the table?
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>Look at Stan's options prices on his web site
>>>> > >>>(http://www.rhodes22.com/super_options.html). Is
>>>> > there something you
>>>> > >>>would actually buy if the price were lower? If
>>>> > so, what would the price
>>>> > >>>have to be?
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>Brad is returning to the US shortly, and doesn't
>>>> > have much time to see if
>>>> > >>>he can set up something like this. If you think
>>>> > this is a terrible idea,
>>>> > >>>please speak up quickly so we all know where we
>>>> > stand.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>I think this is an interesting idea if Brad can
>>>> > actually do it. It is
>>>> > >>>something we can all do to put more money in
>>>> > Stan's pocket right away,
>>>> > >>>while buying parts for our boats at a lower cost.
>>>> > It's a win-win...if
>>>> > >>>Brad can pull it off.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>Please note. Brad is a commercial airline pilot
>>>> > who no longer owns a
>>>> > >>>Rhodes 22. There is nothing in this deal for
>>>> > him. He will always make
>>>> > >>>more money flying an airplane than getting
>>>> > involved in a crazy sailboat
>>>> > >>>spare parts Chinese manufacturing scheme. He
>>>> > just happens to be in China
>>>> > >>>right now, saw Stan's Lament, and asked if there
>>>> > was anything he could do
>>>> > >>>to help.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>Bill Effros
>>>> >
>>>> >>>__________________________________________________
>>>> > >>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>>> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>__________________________________________________
>>>> > >>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>>> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >__________________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> === message truncated ===
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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