[Rhodes22-list] Political - NOT RELATED TO SAILING!!!

[Stephen Staum]

Dam good question.  Maybe he did not feel comfortable because he knew that 
he wasn't really elected.  SS
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nell" <nellwolfe at cox.net>
To: "'stan'" <stan at rhodes22.com>; "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" 
<rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Political - NOT RELATED TO SAILING!!!


>I have one small question.
> If W felt so "called by God" to make such sweeping changes in Social
> Security, and all the other changes he has instituted / proposed since his
> coronation, why didn't he start all the reforms during his first stolen 
> term
> of office?
> Certainly, it couldn't be because he was afraid of not being re-inducted
> into the hall of shame.
>
> nellwolfe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of stan
> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 3:10 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Political - for Brad's Eyes -
> notrelatedtosailing!
>
> Brad,
>
> Hmmm - I am not always wrong.  I note that while we speak the market has
> dropped 84 cents.
>
> I also said that history would eventually show that Clinton had been a 
> great
>
> president - but now I hear you saying that's happening earlier than I
> thought
>
> I also thought that no way could the world economy take on all the job
> retirement programs industry and governments were giving workers and that
> they would have to bail themselves out of this "math-not-adding-up"
> situation with a secret plan of programmed inflation.  But I was wrong
> again - they had more balls than I guessed and either went out of business
> with the wealthy taking theirs up front, or simply reneged on pension 
> deals
> that were, in effect, terms where workers took less pay to get the jobs in
> return for the money they would get when they retired - really a localized
> social security but with a different name.
>
> The bottom line is that when the conservatives get in power the name of 
> the
> game is to take whatever can be taken, away from the poor.  And when the
> liberals get in power, to reverse that damage.  And maybe that is nature's
> law of the survival of the species.
>
> But my basic argument remains;  and that is, when you say the poor want 
> the
> rich to pay, both god and I would argue that it was the poor who helped 
> the
> rich get there, so where's the beef.  Personally I never thought it fair 
> for
>
> W to tell the rich that the taxes they paid was their money so it should 
> be
> given back to them and the debt incurred in doing what had to be done,
> belongs to the poor, so let them pay - or sell the debt to foreigners and
> let the poor's kids pay.  But what do I know of fairness and values - I'm
> just a leftover Neanderthal from Brooklyn.
>
> stan.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "brad haslett" <flybrad at yahoo.com>
> To: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>; "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Political - for Brad's Eyes -
> notrelatedtosailing!
>
>
>> Stan,
>>
>> Be careful what you wish for.  You're right, the
>> original intent was for SS to be an insurance program,
>> not a substitute for responsible planning.  I'd gladly
>> drop out today and forgo all future benefits but that
>> won't happen.  All the polls show that the current
>> recepients want "the rich" to pay the way and I fully
>> expect the current $90,000 limit to be raised.  Albert
>> Einstein said the eighth wonder of the world was
>> compound interest.  I'd like to see my kids take
>> advantage of that by putting a percentage of their
>> earnings into a controlled investing program.  That is
>> precisely the retirement program available to Federal
>> Government workers and I don't see a rush on their
>> part to give it up for the SS program.  I think if the
>> BHL's would look past their hatred of W they might see
>> he's hardly the fiscal conservative those of us to the
>> right of Attila the Hun would like.  Like my friend
>> always says, in many ways, Bill Clinton was the best
>> conservative President we had in a long time. W is way
>> to friendly with the pocket-book on programs like
>> Medicare for me.  As to the cuts in agriculture, he's
>> right on target. Sometimes things are not what they
>> appear.  I do think Bush is right to take on SS now
>> and not let the problem fester for future generations.
>> The devil is in the details.  We won't hear the end
>> of this for a long time.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>> --- stan <stan at rhodes22.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Brad,
>>>
>>> I do not even remember his name yet but the senate
>>> minority leader sounded
>>> good to me, so far (another Truman type?)
>>>
>>> Re SS. from a selfish point of view Rose and I are
>>> getting ours so why worry
>>> (but you know I need diversionary entertainment).
>>> So I'll ad that we have
>>> thought that everyone was looking at this program
>>> myopically.  It really
>>> either was meant to be, or should have been meant to
>>> be, a Social Security
>>> Insurance program where everyone pays into it and
>>> only those who need it
>>> when the time comes take the benefits..  My
>>> father-in-law was modestly
>>> wealthy and kept getting his SS checks which amazed
>>> us kids because he
>>> simply didn't need it and so would put it into the
>>> stock market - he was
>>> ahead of Bush's time.... .
>>>
>>> My guess is that while the president is out there
>>> pushing his investing in
>>> the market idea, the market is going to be crashing
>>> and kill the vote.
>>>
>>> stan/ec
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "brad haslett" <flybrad at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>; "The Rhodes 22 mail
>>> list"
>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 9:35 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Political - for Brad's
>>> Eyes - not
>>> relatedtosailing!
>>>
>>>
>>> > Stan,
>>> >
>>> > One of the names that keeps coming up for the Dems
>>> in
>>> > 2008 is Tennessee Governor Phil Bredesen.  Evan
>>> Bayh
>>> > shot himself in the foot with a lot of moderates
>>> over
>>> > the Condi vote.  Bredesen was Mayor of Nashville,
>>> a
>>> > self-made multi-millionare from the health care
>>> > industry, from the Northeast originally, and I
>>> voted
>>> > for him as Governor and probably could as
>>> President.
>>> > Anyway, Bredesen just last month made massive cuts
>>> in
>>> > Tennessee's universal health-care program,
>>> Tenn-Care,
>>> > because it wasn't sustainable and was bankrupting
>>> the
>>> > state.  I think nearly everyone with a heart wants
>>> > universal access to health care but these huge
>>> social
>>> > programs have so far proven difficult to
>>> administer.
>>> > Ever been to a hospital in China?  Change in our
>>> > current system is certainly needed but massive
>>> > government take-over of health care hasn't worked
>>> all
>>> > that well in the communist/socialist countries and
>>> I
>>> > don't see it working well here either.
>>> >
>>> > Now as to SS.  Did you read what Greenspan had to
>>> say?
>>> > Certainly everyone that has bought into the myth
>>> of
>>> > SS, like my parents, need to be protected.  But
>>> for my
>>> > kids, they need to be told the truth.  When the
>>> > program started the ratio was 40 workers for every
>>> > recipient.  Now its 3 to one.  When I start
>>> drawing
>>> > benefits (I'm not holding my breath on that and am
>>> > planning otherwise) the ratio will be 2 to 1.
>>> This is
>>> > a no-brainer Stan.  The numbers don't add up.
>>> When
>>> > you politize the math and scare the shit out of
>>> old
>>> > people its irresponsible.  I can't honestly look
>>> my
>>> > kids in the eye and tell them that SS is a good
>>> deal
>>> > for them.  The handwriting is on the wall.  This
>>> is
>>> > not a Republican or a Democrat problem, this is
>>> simple
>>> > demographics.  Go to the latest McKinsey
>>> newsletter
>>> > and you'll see China is facing the same problem.
>>> Its
>>> > simple math!
>>> >
>>> > Brad
>>> >
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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