[Rhodes22-list] Mac 26x and R22

[ed kroposki]

Peter:
	Watch the top line, the 'To' line.  Sometimes it is caused by the
sender in the first place.  I get both in direct and the list in my reply
to, depending on who sent it in the first place.  I get both on yours, but
not on most.  
	All this discussion for a contrarian who only occasionally
acknowledges this list. I guess Curtis is not going to tell us if he bought
that Hunter (water ballast). There are other brands out there that use water
ballast.
	
Ed K
Greenville, SC, USA



 
	

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Thorn
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 6:20 PM
To: Rhodes 22 List Members
Subject: Fw: [Rhodes22-list] Mac 26x and R22

I really intended to share this with the list.  When I "Reply" with Outlook,
it somehow bypasses the list if I'm not careful.  Any ideas?

PT

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Thorn" <pthorn at nc.rr.com
To: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mac 26x and R22


 Bill,

 To be sure we'd have a good one, I brought one with me from NC: a
 small/medium Danforth with 20' of 1/4" chain and 150' 3/8" nylon.  That
 anchor held just fine.

 Prior to setting out and at my urging, Tom spent over $500 on basic
running
 rigging upgrades at West Marine.  His 26x is three years old.  He bought
it  new, so all the lines and rigging were Roger M's original junk.  We
joked  about the incredibly low quality running rigging Roger puts on his
boats  throughout our trip.  The few lines we didn't replace would kink or
the core  would push through in places, making them function very poorly.
Imagine a  mainsheet with the core poking out 3/4" getting hung on a sheave.
When poor quality effects function, I think safety is effected too.

 The mooring cleats are undersized and not installed with any backing.  I
 think there are two 4 or 5" cleats at the bow and two at the stern.
They're really too small for the purpose.  I've read that most Mac owners
upgrade quite a bit and many consider the boat delivered from the factory to
be a "kit", so they expect to spend more upfitting later.

 I suppose it's possible your new anchorage neighbor lost his bow cleats in
a blow.  Suggest you don't moor downwind of him and watch the weather
closely.
 I am surprised to read it's the first one in Greenwich.  Last year, we
 anchored in Oyster Bay near the prominent waterside home of  the NY
 Cablevision chairman/ceo and later fueled at the Sewanica (sp?) Corinthian
 YC fuel doc, so I know they've seen at least one of them up there.

 The place we put in the Upper Chesapeake late last month, Casa Rio in Mayo
, MD has about 50 Macs in drysail mode on the hard.  These boats seem to be
 the model Ts of recreational motor/sailing.  They all look alike and are
 featured and priced to attract a broad following.  It's unfortunate they
 don't sail a lot better.

 The Mac 26 predecessor to the 26x was a much better sailboat.  I almost
 bought one before I started thinking about the R22.  Too bad they
 discontinued it, but I very glad now to have Raven.

 My new neighbors moved in about a month ago and have a Mac26M (the new one
 with dagger board).  They sold a 30' S2 in FL, moved to Chapel Hill and
 bought the new Mac.  It looks a little better than the 26x, but I really
 don't know much about it.  They took it to the Pamilco and Neuse for 3
 weeks.  I hope they make it back OK.

 PT






 ----- Original Message ----- 
 From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com
 To: "Peter Thorn" <pthorn at nc.rr.com; "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
 <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
 Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 5:20 PM
 Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mac 26x and R22


  Peter,
 
  I gather your anchor set-up held outside Clinton.  How was it
  configured?  The 26x next to me last night did not seem to have a bow
 cleat.
 
  Bill Effros
 
  Peter Thorn wrote:
 
  Bill, Ed, Rob and Lurkers,
  
  Having circumnavigated Long Island, except the blue water part, in a
26x, I can say Richard Smith's comments about them are right on the money.
They really don't either sail or motor that well.  The steering is very hard
 too.
  But, IMHO, that's not the worst part.
  
  About a year ago Cousin Tom and I sailed in his 26x up through Big and
  Little Pequot, passed Plum Island, entered LIS and then traveled a 30
km long port tack in SW winds until arriving in Clinton, CT after dark.
It was calm and we were whooped, so, as cruising novices, we made the
 biggest mistake of our trip then.  Instead of traveling the last 300 yards
in the dark into an unknown (to us)  protected anchorage, we set the hook
right there in open water.  Tom took the queen bed under the cockpit and I
the vee birth.
  
  Now a 26x, even with the tanks full, is a light boat for its size.
Think ping pong ball.  About 3 am the winds changed from calm to storm
 approaching  from the east.  Waves 2-3' started bouncing our 26x ping pong
ball around like Gin in a martini shaker.  I believe the vee birth took most
of the activity.  By 4 am I was truly getting green around the gills, so I
woke Tom and discussed getting underway to take advantage of the winds from
the east.
  We started to get ready,but by 4:30 it was dry heaves over the side
For me.  My first seasick experience!
  
  This year I've sailed Raven enough to fully appreciate what a wonderful
 22' foot sailboat Stan and Phil Rhodes have created.   Raven has a fine
 enough entry to avoid the pounding and smacking the 26x flat bottomed ping
pong ball gives it's riders in rough conditions.
  
  On paper, the 26x is supposed to be faster than the R22 under sail.  In
  reality that is not my experience.  Under all conditions except
motoring, Tom could not keep up with us in Raven in the upper Chesapeake
last week. The 26x has tighter headsail sheeting angles, but with the flat
bottom it must be footed to keep the flow going over the high lift rudders
and cb, or in light air they stall and leeway results.    Raven makes much
better  VMG to windward.  We would start sailing together, but as each day
progressed the result would always be the same:  when our lead became large,
the 26x would convert to "motor boat mode" and run the 50hp Suzuki to catch
up at the end of the day.   We would arrive first, and we would have sailed
the entire distance.  Much better quality of experience, wouldn't you say?
  
  In fairness, the 26x was a great boat to travel around Long Island in 7
  days.  If the wind or our bad judgment let us down, the 50 hp Suzuki
 would bail us out.  While passing down the East River and by the battery it
was nice to be able to throttle away from any threats.   Any small boat is
no match for those ferries and tugs, so it was nice to be able to get out
of the way.
  
  But anyone interested in pure sailing should think twice before buying
A 26x.  There is just no comparison to our lovely R22.  If you believe
That a motorboat will get you there faster, but that in a sailboat "you're
 Already there", then a high quality sailing experience easily trumps the
 Flexability advantages of the 26x hybrid boat.  The light responsive helm
and dinghy-like sailing characteristics of  the Rhodes are very worth the
 Price of the boat.
  
  PT
  
  
  
  
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net
  To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
  Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 7:29 AM
  Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Bill's reply on Mac 26 and Hunter Sailboats!
  
  
  Bill Said:
  
  "Actually, I owned a Mac 26 water ballast ... is fun, although it is
  true that failing to put any water into the tank gives the word
"tender" a whole new meaning...it's hairy.  A cheap thrill ...1/2 filling
the ballast tank is also very interesting."
  
  Bill:
  So if you liked water ballast so much, why don't you still have a
  water ballast boat, like the Mac or Hunter?  Give the two guys looking
at the Hunter and the Mac your insights.
  Are there any safety or boat integrity issues specific to water
  ballast?  You are the one who has had both type boats.  What are your
  experienced insights?
  
  Ed K
  Greenville, SC, USA
  Addendum:   "This ... is like an Enron budget -- smoke the numbers,
cook the books, hide the truth and hope no one finds out."  Senator John
Kerry