[Rhodes22-list]Public Schools, was Public Radio and TV

Thu May 26 09:31:35 EDT 2005

oops... I sent it before completing a sentence... 2nd paragraph last line 
was supposed to be: "How many kids do you know, or adults either for that 
matter, can tolerate sitting at a desk most of the day waiting and doing 
nothing without getting fidgety and trying to find some mischief to get 
into?"

I need to take lessons from Stan..

Saroj

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Saroj Gilbert" <saroj at pathfind.net>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]Public Schools, was Public Radio and TV

> Slim,
>
> Its me who started this thing about public schooling.  I have more 
> personal reasons for being against it than you can imagine, but my primary 
> reason from an altruistic point of view is that education is a social 
> control mechanism.  Any education is... whether private or public, but at 
> least with private parents can choose their poison.  I personally think 
> children get a MUCH better education that is totally personally suited for 
> their needs when home schooled by conscientious, focused parents who have 
> the time to do so. However that rarely occurs.  How come as a society we 
> think it is ok for just anyone to have kids and be parents, yet believe 
> those same children have to be carted off to the wild, often cruel, 
> environment of a state-run institution to gain the life skills they need 
> to be good, productive citizens?
>
> I was heavily involved with my children's schools and have read 
> extensively about education.  There are a number of facts you state that 
> certainly were not true when my kids where in school 4 to 5 years ago.  By 
> the way although my two youngest children went to a Montessori school 
> until 3rd grade or so we made a conscious decision to move to a good 
> school district so that we would not be "married" to the private school 
> thing... I hate elitism and I didn't want our family to be burdened by the 
> extra cost of private school, which is substantial. Sending them to the 
> public schools where we lived was not an option.  We did a school visit 
> before deciding on Montessori... we watched as the teacher had the 
> children draw a line across the paper... EVERYONE in the room had to wait 
> until the last line was drawn before they could go on to the next step... 
> How may
>
> Point 1: the private school teachers and staff did what they did for love, 
> they were paid FAR less than their public school equivalents.
> Point 2: private school parents pay TWICE for their children's 
> education... we paid school taxes AND had to pay for the private schooling 
> too.
>
> Our attempt at integrating with the public school system was an abysmal 
> failure... within two years our son was in a gang and had a "territory" 
> for drug selling, protected with guns from his "seniors" AND was molested 
> by a high school teacher, who, by the way was acquitted, not once, but 
> TWICE (two separate incidents, different kids) mostly due to the highly 
> paid defense attorney shark provided by his union..  The kicker was when 
> all the school district execs showed up to say what a wonderful person he 
> was.  Finally after numerous complaints to the state dept of education, 
> his license was yanked.  We finally had to remove our daughter because she 
> was being given such negative "information" about her learning disability 
> and provided next to no help for it that she was in danger of being 
> permanently convinced she was stupid.  The cost to our family for these 
> occurrances was horrendous emotionally and financially.  There are more 
> stories, but I'll leave it at that.
>
> The private schools that we eventually chose for them were absolutely 
> incredible environments and they both flourished.  But we were paying out 
> $50,000 a year for the "privilege".
>
> Saroj
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Slim" <salm at mn.rr.com>
> To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 5:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]Public Schools, was Public Radio and TV
>
>
>> Philip,
>>
>> Why are you against public schools?  I admit, there are many problems,
>> mostly caused by union-bashing, fund-cutting republicans; but the public
>> schools are our best resource, period.  Shouldn't we be giving our youth 
>> the
>> best that we can?  Private schools cost money that most do not need to 
>> pay.
>> The public system is as good as the funding.  Offer a decent wage and you
>> attract decent teachers.  Where I live, Minnesota, the average life-span 
>> of
>> a new teacher is three years before they find better pay/conditions
>> elsewhere.  It's abysmal.  It's a very tough job.  I know - been there, 
>> done
>> that.  Have you?
>>
>> It's easy to sit back and complain, but consider this:  The law requires
>> specifically mandated curriculum but doesn't fund it, and so private 
>> schools
>> have to send students to the public schools for whatever they can't 
>> provide,
>> e.g., special ed, phy ed, science, or whatever.  And then the public 
>> schools
>> have to take these students, for which they are NOT paid, and provide
>> service because it's the law.  Private schools want to have their cake 
>> and
>> eat it too.  It's just not fair because it puts the public schools in a
>> deeper hole than they're already in.  If you want to send your kid to
>> private school, fine, but don't send him to the public school for gym. 
>> But
>> you'll have to change the law first.
>>
>> What really bugs me is that everybody thinks they're an expert, e.g.,
>> legislators, governors, parents--none of whom have ever set foot in a
>> classroom.  They keep coming up with nothing but educational gimmicks 
>> that
>> do nothing but waste the valuable time and money of teachers.
>>
>> Philip, teaching a kid to read is not rocket science, but it becomes
>> Herculean without the proper resources.  If you want to see our public
>> system collapse, we'll be putting our youth and therefore our country at 
>> a
>> disadvantage.  Privatizing leads to nothing but discrimination and 
>> elitism.
>> Is that what you really want for our country--even more of the "haves" 
>> and
>> the "have-nots?"  Should we abandon our nation's entire educational
>> infrastructure to accommodate you and yours?
>>
>> Slim
>>
>> On 5/25/05 10:06 PM, "Philip Esteban" <3drecon at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I am totally against public education in its current form.  Any parent 
>>> who
>>> wants their child well educated will NOT send them to public school.  As 
>>> for
>>> PBS, if you do not detect the left wing near communist, praise Castro 
>>> bias,
>>> then you might want to examine your own leanings.
>>>
>>> Philip
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Saroj Gilbert
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 8:58 AM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Public Radio and TV
>>>
>>>
>>> Heavens, I don't even know how to respond to this.. may have to leave it 
>>> up
>>> to the eloquence of Stan...
>>>
>>> Are you saying that public radio promotes communism and socialism?
>>> Are you saying that public radio and TV promote control of individuals?
>>> They are promoting the control of the point of view of the masses?
>>> They are somehow disdaining individual freedom?
>>>
>>> That they are biased in some way I would grant you... it is impossible 
>>> to be
>>> a human being or an organization of any kind and not be biased... you 
>>> are
>>> too... we all are.. it is the nature of being a human being...or group 
>>> of
>>> human beings...  I've been listening to NPR for years, and I never 
>>> picked up
>>> on this... hmmm... just dense maybe.. somehow intellectually defective? 
>>> I
>>> find them innovative, focused on presenting representation of the arts 
>>> in a
>>> way that can't be found anywhere else, whether literature, drama, music.
>>>
>>> Why don't you suggest they read Natan Saransky's book on Democracy.... 
>>> they
>>> no doubt would... maybe I should read it... I haven't...
>>>
>>> However if you are concerned about control of the individual then you 
>>> MUST
>>> be against public education... that is the biggest and most incidious 
>>> form
>>> of it we have in this country..  I know I am.
>>>
>>> Saroj
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 8:28 AM
>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Public Radio and TV
>>>
>>>
>>> Saroj:
>>> Unfortunately your public radio and TV often promotes a control the
>>> masses point of view.  Communism and socialism are political positions 
>>> used
>>> to control individuals.  Big business is corporate control of the
>>> individual.  Public radio promotes the same thesis of controlling the
>>> individual.
>>> Individual freedom whether political, educational, business is
>>> distained by your public media. Public Radio or TV promotes only the 
>>> view
>>> which represent their biased point of view.
>>> Has radio reader ever read Natan Saransky's book on Democracy?  Have
>>> they promoted writers who espouse individual freedoms?
>>> They advocate just another form of bigness...
>>>
>>> Ed Kroposki
>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>> Addendum:  "As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master.  This
>>> expresses my idea of democracy.  Whatever differ from this, to the 
>>> extent of
>>> difference, is no democracy."  A. Lincoln
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Saroj Gilbert
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 7:01 AM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Re: Commitment to war
>>>
>>> So we can have a source of news that isn't massaged to meet the demands 
>>> of
>>> the corporate advertisers....
>>> So we aren't bombarded by commercials...
>>> So we can listen to the BBC...
>>> So we can experience innovation that isn't dependent on commercially
>>> dictated norms...
>>>
>>> It is mostly subscriber-supported and grant supported anyhow... but 
>>> you'll
>>> notice more and more that it receives a lot of commercial support too so 
>>> it
>>> may not be able to maintain its independence.
>>>
>>> Saroj
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Philip Esteban" <3drecon at comcast.net>
>>> To: "'stan'" <stan at rhodes22.com>; "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:09 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Re: Commitment to war
>>>
>>>
>>>> Why, with hundreds of channels available are we funding public radio 
>>>> and
>>>> television, but we are told we need our taxes raised to meet other
>>>> requirements?  The government needs to get out of the radio and tv
>>>> business.
>>>>
>>>> Philip
>>>
>>>
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>>
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