[Rhodes22-list]Public Schools, was Public Radio and TV

[Slim]

Saroj,

Saying that education is a social control mechanism seems too cynical for me
to agree with.  That's the churches' job.  I don't think the schools can see
or reach that far.  Unless of course you're talking about religious schools
- then, yes. 

Private school teachers do it for love because they're paid less?  Believe
it or not, many public school teachers love their work too.  They may make
more than private teachers, but let's face it--nobody's getting rich.
Frankly, I think public teachers SHOULD make more because their job is
harder and they must have more stringent qualifications.  You don't even
have to be licensed to teach in a private school.  Heck, you don't even need
a degree.  Many private teachers are nuns.  Some of them might be
qualified...  

I'm not bashing all private schools.  Some are terrific, including
Montessori.  My own dear mother founded and ran a private school for years.
She even wrote a book about it called "Inventing A School: Expanding the
Boundaries of Learning " by Dr. Jane Kern.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0967641616/002-6730628-8646449
?v=glance
But I won't sit still for public school bashing.  You should hear Mom and I
go at it. 8-)   Nor do I suggest that all public schools are good.
Certainly not.  Public and private schools are simply not on a level playing
field.  

Saroj, I'm so sorry your son's public school experience was that horrible,
but at the risk of sounding callous, the story is merely anecdotal.  It
would be a mistake to characterize the schools thus.  I've personally met
thousands of teachers but not one that was a sexual predator.
Again, more common in the church.

Slim


On 5/26/05 7:04 AM, "Saroj Gilbert" <saroj at pathfind.net> wrote:

> Slim,
> 
> Its me who started this thing about public schooling.  I have more personal
> reasons for being against it than you can imagine, but my primary reason
> from an altruistic point of view is that education is a social control
> mechanism.  Any education is... whether private or public, but at least with
> private parents can choose their poison.  I personally think children get a
> MUCH better education that is totally personally suited for their needs when
> home schooled by conscientious, focused parents who have the time to do so.
> However that rarely occurs.  How come as a society we think it is ok for
> just anyone to have kids and be parents, yet believe those same children
> have to be carted off to the wild, often cruel, environment of a state-run
> institution to gain the life skills they need to be good, productive
> citizens?
> 
> I was heavily involved with my children's schools and have read extensively
> about education.  There are a number of facts you state that certainly were
> not true when my kids where in school 4 to 5 years ago.  By the way although
> my two youngest children went to a Montessori school until 3rd grade or so
> we made a conscious decision to move to a good school district so that we
> would not be "married" to the private school thing... I hate elitism and I
> didn't want our family to be burdened by the extra cost of private school,
> which is substantial. Sending them to the public schools where we lived was
> not an option.  We did a school visit before deciding on Montessori... we
> watched as the teacher had the children draw a line across the paper...
> EVERYONE in the room had to wait until the last line was drawn before they
> could go on to the next step... How may
> 
> Point 1: the private school teachers and staff did what they did for love,
> they were paid FAR less than their public school equivalents.
> Point 2: private school parents pay TWICE for their children's education...
> we paid school taxes AND had to pay for the private schooling too.
> 
> Our attempt at integrating with the public school system was an abysmal
> failure... within two years our son was in a gang and had a "territory" for
> drug selling, protected with guns from his "seniors" AND was molested by a
> high school teacher, who, by the way was acquitted, not once, but TWICE (two
> separate incidents, different kids) mostly due to the highly paid defense
> attorney shark provided by his union..  The kicker was when all the school
> district execs showed up to say what a wonderful person he was.  Finally
> after numerous complaints to the state dept of education, his license was
> yanked.  We finally had to remove our daughter because she was being given
> such negative "information" about her learning disability and provided next
> to no help for it that she was in danger of being permanently convinced she
> was stupid.  The cost to our family for these occurrances was horrendous
> emotionally and financially.  There are more stories, but I'll leave it at
> that.
> 
> The private schools that we eventually chose for them were absolutely
> incredible environments and they both flourished.  But we were paying out
> $50,000 a year for the "privilege".
> 
> Saroj
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Slim" <salm at mn.rr.com>
> To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 5:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]Public Schools, was Public Radio and TV
> 
> 
>> Philip,
>> 
>> Why are you against public schools?  I admit, there are many problems,
>> mostly caused by union-bashing, fund-cutting republicans; but the public
>> schools are our best resource, period.  Shouldn't we be giving our youth
>> the
>> best that we can?  Private schools cost money that most do not need to
>> pay.
>> The public system is as good as the funding.  Offer a decent wage and you
>> attract decent teachers.  Where I live, Minnesota, the average life-span
>> of
>> a new teacher is three years before they find better pay/conditions
>> elsewhere.  It's abysmal.  It's a very tough job.  I know - been there,
>> done
>> that.  Have you?
>> 
>> It's easy to sit back and complain, but consider this:  The law requires
>> specifically mandated curriculum but doesn't fund it, and so private
>> schools
>> have to send students to the public schools for whatever they can't
>> provide,
>> e.g., special ed, phy ed, science, or whatever.  And then the public
>> schools
>> have to take these students, for which they are NOT paid, and provide
>> service because it's the law.  Private schools want to have their cake and
>> eat it too.  It's just not fair because it puts the public schools in a
>> deeper hole than they're already in.  If you want to send your kid to
>> private school, fine, but don't send him to the public school for gym.
>> But
>> you'll have to change the law first.
>> 
>> What really bugs me is that everybody thinks they're an expert, e.g.,
>> legislators, governors, parents--none of whom have ever set foot in a
>> classroom.  They keep coming up with nothing but educational gimmicks that
>> do nothing but waste the valuable time and money of teachers.
>> 
>> Philip, teaching a kid to read is not rocket science, but it becomes
>> Herculean without the proper resources.  If you want to see our public
>> system collapse, we'll be putting our youth and therefore our country at a
>> disadvantage.  Privatizing leads to nothing but discrimination and
>> elitism.
>> Is that what you really want for our country--even more of the "haves" and
>> the "have-nots?"  Should we abandon our nation's entire educational
>> infrastructure to accommodate you and yours?
>> 
>> Slim
>> 
>> On 5/25/05 10:06 PM, "Philip Esteban" <3drecon at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> I am totally against public education in its current form.  Any parent
>>> who
>>> wants their child well educated will NOT send them to public school.  As
>>> for
>>> PBS, if you do not detect the left wing near communist, praise Castro
>>> bias,
>>> then you might want to examine your own leanings.
>>> 
>>> Philip
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Saroj Gilbert
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 8:58 AM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Public Radio and TV
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Heavens, I don't even know how to respond to this.. may have to leave it
>>> up
>>> to the eloquence of Stan...
>>> 
>>> Are you saying that public radio promotes communism and socialism?
>>> Are you saying that public radio and TV promote control of individuals?
>>> They are promoting the control of the point of view of the masses?
>>> They are somehow disdaining individual freedom?
>>> 
>>> That they are biased in some way I would grant you... it is impossible to
>>> be
>>> a human being or an organization of any kind and not be biased... you are
>>> too... we all are.. it is the nature of being a human being...or group of
>>> human beings...  I've been listening to NPR for years, and I never picked
>>> up
>>> on this... hmmm... just dense maybe.. somehow intellectually defective?
>>> I
>>> find them innovative, focused on presenting representation of the arts in
>>> a
>>> way that can't be found anywhere else, whether literature, drama, music.
>>> 
>>> Why don't you suggest they read Natan Saransky's book on Democracy....
>>> they
>>> no doubt would... maybe I should read it... I haven't...
>>> 
>>> However if you are concerned about control of the individual then you
>>> MUST
>>> be against public education... that is the biggest and most incidious
>>> form
>>> of it we have in this country..  I know I am.
>>> 
>>> Saroj
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 8:28 AM
>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Public Radio and TV
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Saroj:
>>> Unfortunately your public radio and TV often promotes a control the
>>> masses point of view.  Communism and socialism are political positions
>>> used
>>> to control individuals.  Big business is corporate control of the
>>> individual.  Public radio promotes the same thesis of controlling the
>>> individual.
>>> Individual freedom whether political, educational, business is
>>> distained by your public media. Public Radio or TV promotes only the view
>>> which represent their biased point of view.
>>> Has radio reader ever read Natan Saransky's book on Democracy?  Have
>>> they promoted writers who espouse individual freedoms?
>>> They advocate just another form of bigness...
>>> 
>>> Ed Kroposki
>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>> Addendum:  "As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master.  This
>>> expresses my idea of democracy.  Whatever differ from this, to the extent
>>> of
>>> difference, is no democracy."  A. Lincoln
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Saroj Gilbert
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 7:01 AM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Re: Commitment to war
>>> 
>>> So we can have a source of news that isn't massaged to meet the demands
>>> of
>>> the corporate advertisers....
>>> So we aren't bombarded by commercials...
>>> So we can listen to the BBC...
>>> So we can experience innovation that isn't dependent on commercially
>>> dictated norms...
>>> 
>>> It is mostly subscriber-supported and grant supported anyhow... but
>>> you'll
>>> notice more and more that it receives a lot of commercial support too so
>>> it
>>> may not be able to maintain its independence.
>>> 
>>> Saroj
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Philip Esteban" <3drecon at comcast.net>
>>> To: "'stan'" <stan at rhodes22.com>; "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:09 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Re: Commitment to war
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Why, with hundreds of channels available are we funding public radio and
>>>> television, but we are told we need our taxes raised to meet other
>>>> requirements?  The government needs to get out of the radio and tv
>>>> business.
>>>> 
>>>> Philip
>>> 
>>> 
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