[Rhodes22-list] Political: Majority rule Reply to Stan

Philip Esteban 3drecon at comcast.net
Fri May 27 11:20:35 EDT 2005


The Clinton admistration is wholly responsible for setting up the situation
we have now.  By ignoring the threat and not responding to attacks when they
had the opportunity, the campus intellectuals let us down.

Philip


-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of brad haslett
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:54 AM
To: stan; The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Political: Majority rule Reply to Stan


Stan,

"The real mistake, in my opinion was when the first
Bush encouraged the north and south to challenge the
regime and then left  them hanging without the
hardware support they were under the impression  they
would be getting."

I couldn't agree more, Sir.  Unfortunately Bush 41's
replacement did more of the same - talked a lot about
how much Saddam needed to go but did nothing.

Here is a "short" article about the progress made by
that "idiot" W.




http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0505200305may20,0,2959235.sto
ry?coll=chi-newsopinioncommentary-hed




The caricature and reality of George Bush



Victor Davis Hanson, senior fellow and historian at
the Hoover Institution at Stanford University: Tribune
Media Services

May 20, 2005

Moveon.org, "Fahrenheit 9/11," Anonymous, Richard
Clark and now the Newsweek story about alleged
desecration of the Koran--all these sensations of the
day have been used to proclaim the supposed sins of
the American administration in the Middle East. Even
when Americans consider that the president's foreign
policy might just be working, he is still caricatured
by critics and the media, here and abroad, as a
clueless Inspector Clouseau who trips around and only
stumbles into his good luck.

How accurate is that cartoon?

Just imagine if George Bush had predicted to us on the
morning after Sept. 11, 2001, what actually ended up
happening. He might have delivered the following
speech:

"Ours is not a war on Muslims or the Arab world.
Rather, we are in a struggle against a new fascism
that resorts to terror. Osama bin Laden must distort
Islam and deflect blame onto the United States for the
self-inflicted miseries of the Middle East, created by
its own illiberal dictatorships.

"Therefore, American strategy is three-pronged:

"We will hunt down terrorist cells in the United
States that due to our laxity have already infiltrated
the West.

"America will remove rogue regimes abroad that have
funded and supported these killers.

"In their places, the United States will support
consensual governments to ensure a third choice other
than just Islamic theocracy or brutal dictatorship.

"First, we must go on the offensive. In less than a
month, our forces will go to faraway Afghanistan and
remove the Taliban within six weeks upon arrival. From
that victory, democracy will follow for all Afghans,
regardless of tribe or gender.

"Some regimes openly sanction terrorists. Others have
entered into secretive alliances with them. Saddam
Hussein has violated all his past international
agreements and murdered thousands of his own and
others across his borders. The Senate no doubt will
sanction his removal because he is an enemy of the
United States, subsidizing anti-democratic terrorists
from the West Bank to Kurdistan.

"In the space of three week's time, we can liberate
Iraq from Saddam's Baathist nightmare and stay on to
help the long-suffering Iraqi people secure their
freedom under a new democracy.

"Pakistan has been hostile, but its cooperation is
vital to dismantle Al Qaeda. We must win President
Musharraf over to the side of civilization and prod
him to reform. Such cooperation is fraught with
danger. It demands the exposure of the nuclear
proliferator Dr. A.Q. Khan and the cessation of his
efforts to spread nuclear weapons worldwide. If we are
successful, in the next four years most of the
leadership of Al Qaeda will be scattered into hiding,
apprehended or killed.

"Democracy is a human aspiration and thus contagious.
After our successes in Afghanistan and Iraq, America
may well see democratic awakenings in Lebanon, Egypt
and the Gulf states.

"Such reform could serve as an inspiration to peoples
even as far distant as the former Soviet republics and
Ethiopia. Syria must and will leave Lebanon to the
Lebanese. It is also past time for Col. Gadhafi in
Libya to come clean about his dangerous arsenal.
Europeans should join us in stopping the nuclear plans
of theocratic Iran.

"Yasser Arafat corrupted elections in Palestine. He
embezzled billions from his own citizens, subverting
all his commitments to peace. Arafat must be shunned
and his subsidies cut off. Only that way can fair
elections return to the West Bank. The American
government certainly will no longer see him as a
representative of the Palestinian people.

"Despite our historic relationship with Saudi Arabia,
American troops will leave the kingdom. Saddam soon
will no longer pose a threat, and we must distance
ourselves from a Saudi monarchy whose rogue princes
have funded terrorists.

"None of this will be easy, given our past appeasement
of terrorists, the world's dependence on Middle
Eastern oil and the global distrust of American force.

"Congress will debate this agenda. We must await its
vote of approval before moving against both the
Taliban and Saddam Hussein. This administration shall
stand for election in three years--and so the wisdom
or folly of these risky policies will be determined by
the American voter.

"The Taliban ruler Mullah Omar and Saddam Hussein are
formidable. Their removal halfway around the world may
cost hundreds of American lives. Yet if we act
forcefully now, we can fight the suicide bombers and
autocrats on their own turf. That way, in the days
ahead we will lose far fewer Americans in this war
abroad than we have yesterday in peace at home. Only
this difficult road ensures that in four years we will
not witness a repeat of yesterday's mass murder on
American soil."

Had the president promised or even predicted such
things after Sept. 11, most of us would have dismissed
him as utterly unhinged. But that is precisely what
has come to pass.

It is now time to concede it was not entirely a
coincidence, and that President Bush was not a "Pink
Panther"-like Inspector Clouseau who bumbled about the
Middle East, overturned a few things and ended up
accidentally accomplishing what legions of "experts"
never could.

----------

E-mail: author at victorhanson.com


Copyright ) 2005, Chicago Tribune

--- stan <stan at rhodes22.com> wrote:

> yes Ed, but the world is full of Iraq situations -
> even among countries we
> feel we must call our friends.  Where do you want to
> draw the line?  How
> many of our lives do you want to pay?  How much
> money do you want to invest
> instead of putting it into making this country the
> place it could be?  And
> are you sure that we know what we are doing so that
> it will really work in
> the end?  Humans appreciate most what they create on
> their own.  Change has
> to come from within.  The real mistake, in my
> opinion was when the first
> Bush encouraged the north and south to challenge the
> regime and then left
> them hanging without the hardware support they were
> under the impression
> they would be getting..  But I also am out of my
> league here .......
>
> stan/ec
>    .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:05 AM
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Political: Majority
> rule Reply to Stan
>
>
> Stan:
> The only issue I have with this line is thugs and
> ruthless.  In Iraq
> even if you followed the official line, you were at
> risk of death or severe
> personal injury.  Individuals or minorities could
> not effect any change to
> live a reasonable life.  We who live in America
> presume a certain amount of
> personal safety.  It is just not so, even here.  I
> will stop here and let
> the power shooters continue...
>
> Ed K
> Greenville, SC, USA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> Behalf Of stan
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 7:32 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Political: Majority
> rule
>
> See, we both think alike:  It is easy to be generous
> with other people's
> lives.  Anyone who wants to make the world over in
> our own image may try to
> do so with their own lives.  Why come after mine?
>
> stan/ec
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philip Esteban" <3drecon at comcast.net>
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 11:19 PM
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Political: Majority
> rule
>
>
> > It is easy to be generous with other people's
> labour ($$).  Anyone who
> > wants
> > to feed the world may try to do so with their own
> labours.  Why come after
> > mine?
> >
> > Philip
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On
> Behalf Of Robert Skinner
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 11:27 AM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Political: Majority rule
> >
> >
> > Steve wrote:
> >> ...
> >> There is a concept in a republic; majority rules.
>  And
> >> that is fare...
> >
> > 1.  Untempered majority rule is equivalent to
> tyranny for
> >    the minority.  Guess that blacks, jews,
> latinos, or
> >    any but WASPs get no breaks under your rules.
> >
> > 2.  The use of the word "fare" is ironic.  In the
> completely
> >    free market, if you can't pay for food, you
> starve.  Of
> >    course, desperate people can't steal from you
> if you cut
> >    their hands off, like other fundamentalists...
> >
> > How do these consequences of what you advocate
> mesh with
> > "compassionate conservatism"?  Or do you agree
> that this
> > phrase is oxymoronic?
> >
> > Moderation is more than a word.  It is a way of
> life.
> > Blind obedience or pursuit of absolute power is a
> way
> > of death.
> >
> > Jai Bahgwan,
> > /Bob
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> >
>
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