[Rhodes22-list] Brad - Air Conditioning

Bill Effros bill at effros.com
Mon May 30 01:19:26 EDT 2005


Brad,

I see your point.  It appears there are only about 2 deaths a year from 
carbon monoxide poisoning in airplanes, and you would normally have 3 on 
board, so your odds of everyone on board dying in a single incident in a 
single year look pretty remote.

On the other hand, the FAA frowns on airplane exhaust systems that rely 
on coffee can masks and lines holding hoses up masts.

Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, the stifling heat and lack of 
wind are God's way of telling you that a given day with your family 
might better be spent at an air conditioned movie?

Bill

brad haslett wrote:

>Bill,
>
>"Children and small wives die faster?"  I hadn't
>really thought of that but there may be a business
>opportunity here. 
>
>Actually I'm well aware of the dangers of carbon
>monoxide risks, remember, my first job in the aviation
>industry was as an airframe and powerplant mechanic. 
>Small airplanes use a shroud around the muffler to
>warm ambient air and pump it into the cabin.  Any leak
>in the muffler provides a straight flow of exhaust to
>the cockpit.
>
>My boat doesn't have an in-cabin location that would
>be suitable for locating a genset without using up too
>much space or being to noisy (same as the R-22).  The
>only logical location for the Honda would be topsides.
> On larger boats, sailboats included, the genset
>exhausts via an underwater thru-hull, same as the
>engine.  The bulk of the deaths from gensets have been
>on houseboats that port exhaust near a swim platform
>where it accumulates.  The beauty of Bob's design is
>that it takes the exhaust up high where it would
>dissapate.  The attraction of mounting the Honda in an
>industrial storage bin or cooler is to quiet it even
>more but might require installing a cooling air intake
>fan and perhaps an exhaust fan as well.  Really pretty
>simple stuff.
>
>We motored today for about an hour until the wind
>picked up.  My little 13hp diesel starts to smell in
>the cabin after awhile.  There are no exhaust leaks,
>diesels just stink (unless they are running on used
>french fry oil).  I think I'm going to put in a
>powered fan in the engine compartment anyway.  The
>only time the Honda would be used at anchor is when
>the A/C is running so there would be a constant source
>of fresh air.  
>
>Trust me, before I take small children on the boat
>overnight, I'll test any system extensively with a
>carbon monoxide meter.  Wives, mine or anyone else's
>are welcome to dedicate their body to science if
>they're interested.
>
>Brad
>
>--- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Brad,
>>
>>Roger would have leapt to my aid by now.  I've got
>>to look this stuff 
>>up, it's not just swimming in my head.  (People who
>>dislike satire, stop 
>>reading this paragraph.)  You don't want to change
>>the name of your boat 
>>to R.I.P.
>>
>>Carbon monoxide is insidious because it has a
>>cumulative effect over 
>>time.  The time can be very short--like one night. 
>>You can't see or 
>>smell carbon monoxide.  Each particle that gets into
>>your lungs becomes 
>>attached to a blood cell, and prevents that blood
>>cell from delivering 
>>oxygen to the other cells in your system--instead it
>>delivers the carbon 
>>monoxide.  Your system quietly starts shutting down
>>for lack of "air," 
>>but if you're asleep you don't notice.  Children and
>>small wives die 
>>faster than big guys because they have fewer cells
>>so they shut down 
>>sooner.  You accidentally pump enough of that stuff
>>into your cabin, you 
>>can die in 1 to 3 minutes.  (More satire to end of
>>paragraph.) "Hey 
>>honey, is it getting cool down there?"
>>
>>Carbon monoxide kills entire families in big houses
>>all the time.  
>>Roughly 1500-2000 people a year die in the US from
>>carbon monoxide 
>>poisoning, almost all of them when something goes
>>wrong in an existing, 
>>professionally installed, certified exhaust system. 
>>
>>Now, you guys are talking about protecting
>>yourselves with coffee cans, 
>>shop hoses, and coolers.  You plan to enclose your
>>family in a tiny 
>>space, close all the windows, and recirculate cooled
>>air in that space 
>>so any carbon monoxide that may have missed your
>>lungs the first time 
>>around, will get another chance.
>>
>>Brad, I really don't think you are going to do this.
>>
>>BTW Putting an exhaust hose into water is a really
>>really bad idea.  It 
>>creates back pressure that the engine is not
>>designed for.  This will 
>>shorten the life of the engine, but more importantly
>>in this 
>>application, it will cause improper combustion which
>>increases carbon 
>>monoxide output.  The back pressure will also damage
>>the exhaust system 
>>causing it to leak above the water line.
>>
>>Your Friend,
>>
>>Bill Effros
>>
>>brad haslett wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Bill,
>>>
>>>Nope, we're dead serious.  Well, maybe that is a
>>>      
>>>
>>bad
>>    
>>
>>>choice of words.  There was a spate of carbon
>>>      
>>>
>>monoxide
>>    
>>
>>>deaths out on Lake Havasau a few years back with
>>>houseboats and carbon monoxide gathering under the
>>>swim platform.  A lot of people on other boating
>>>      
>>>
>>lists
>>    
>>
>>>have been bungee cord mounting their gensets on the
>>>swim platform.  That doesn't solve the problem.  I
>>>think the key is to get the exhaust up high, or
>>>      
>>>
>>below
>>    
>>
>>>the waterline.  I don't want the genset in the
>>>      
>>>
>>cabin
>>    
>>
>>>so it needs to go topside. Some folks put the Honda
>>>      
>>>
>>in
>>    
>>
>>>the dink but it has tipover protection and
>>>      
>>>
>>frequently
>>    
>>
>>>shuts down when the dink gets hit by a wave.
>>>      
>>>
>>Another
>>    
>>
>>>idea is to mount it in an industrial plastic box
>>>(think Home Depot) and silence it even more. 
>>>      
>>>
>>Attached
>>    
>>
>>>is a message from another list associated with that
>>>idea.
>>>
>>>I can't change the name of this boat because my
>>>daughter already knows it is named after her but my
>>>next boat may be named the "Rube Goldberg".
>>>
>>> --------    A friend of mine put a Honda 1000
>>>      
>>>
>>watt
>>    
>>
>>>(old style) in a full size cooler. He put a 110 v
>>>      
>>>
>>fan
>>    
>>
>>>in one end and a hole in the other end for air to
>>>      
>>>
>>get
>>    
>>
>>>out. He put the Honda into the cooler with the
>>>      
>>>
>>exhaust
>>    
>>
>>>end towards the exit hole. When he started the
>>>      
>>>
>>Honda
>>    
>>
>>>the fan came on and cooled the whole set up. It was
>>>relatively noise free even though it was the older
>>>louder unit. He also extended the exhaust out
>>>      
>>>
>>through
>>    
>>
>>>the side of the cooler and down into the water -
>>>      
>>>
>>this
>>    
>>
>>>quieted the exhaust.
>>>He bolted the cooler to his swim platform and all
>>>      
>>>
>>he
>>    
>>
>>>did was lean over the transom, lift the top of the
>>>cooler, start the generator, close the lid and sit
>>>back and relax. This worked very well and he used
>>>      
>>>
>>it
>>    
>>
>>>for 2 or 3 years.
>>>Earl ---------------------------------------
>>>
>>>Brad
>>>
>>>
>>>--- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>You guys have got to be kidding.  Where is Roger
>>>>when we need him?
>>>>
>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>>brad haslett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Bob,
>>>>>
>>>>>I think I got the gist of your setup.  A picture
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>would
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>be worth a thousand words. How is the can
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>attached
>>    
>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>to
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>the Honda? I've thought about various setups like
>>>>>exhausting through the engines exhaust port,
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>putting
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>the Honda on the dink downwind, etc.  Yours
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>sounds
>>    
>>
>>>>>pretty simple.  A lot of my friends, mostly
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>houseboat
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>and trawler types, raft up for long weekends and
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>I'd
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>like to join them. I've even thought about just
>>>>>stealing power from them.  The months of June
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>through
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>mid-September here are so hot it is impossible to
>>>>>anchor out unless you just enjoy sleeping in 90
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>degree
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>weather with 90 per cent humidity.  I have enough
>>>>>battery to run two fans all night which is good
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>to
>>    
>>
>>>>>spread your BO to the other cabin and visa versa.
>>>>>
>>>>>Using your system  might make it possible to
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>place
>>    
>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
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