[Rhodes22-list] stirring the hornet's nest.... (political) - JohnMurtha chimes in

[Hank]

The following is a report from a grunt in Iraq and is something that will
almost never be shown on the left leaning news networks.

Subject: Report From Down Range

This was sent to me a West Coast USAR CW3 who got it from a Semper Fi, UAL
retired, east coast type.

Hello to all my fellow gunners, military buffs, veterans and interested
guys. A couple of weekends ago I got to spend time with my son Jordan, who
was on his first leave since returning from Iraq. He is well (a little
thin), and already bored. He will be returning to Iraq for a second tour in
early 06 and has already re-enlisted early for 4 more years. He loves the
Marine Corps and is actually looking forward to returning to Iraq.

Jordan spent 7 months at Camp Blue Diamond in Ramadi. Aka: Fort Apache. He
saw and did a lot and the following is what he told me about weapons,
equipment, tactics and other miscellaneous info which may be of interest to
you.

Nothing is by any means classified. No politics here, just a Marine with a
birds eye views opinions:

1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum
powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel
filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version is
more popular because its lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems
also. They like the ability to mount the various optical gunsights and
weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the weapon itself is not great in
a desert environment.

They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinderblock
structure common over there and even torso hits cant be reliably counted on
to put the enemy down. Fun fact: Random autopsies on dead insurgents shows a
high level of opiate use.

2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light machine
gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of shit. Chronic
jamming problems, most of which require partial disassembly. (that fun in
the middle of a firefight).

3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in desert
environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns for
self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad guys
hit multiple times and still in the fight.

4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for clearing
houses to good effect.

5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 Nato (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun,
developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!).
Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts em down. Originally
developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being dismounted
and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round chews up the structure
over there.

6) The M2 .50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. Ma deuce is still
worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight stopper, puts
their dicks in the dirt every time. The most coveted weapon in-theater.

7) The .45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol round out there.
Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on one.
With few exceptions, can reliably be expected to put em down with a torso
hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol work) use the HK
military model and supposedly love it. The old government model .45s are
being re-issued en masse.

8) The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a
modified version to special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight
Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in the
sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round.

9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range and
accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out vehicle
suicide bombers ( we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded enemy.
Definitely here to stay.

10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in .308 but some in 300 win mag.
Heavily modified Remington 700s. Great performance. Snipers have been used
heavily to great effect. Rumor has it that a marine sniper on his third tour
in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos Hathcocks record for
confirmed kills with OVER 100.

11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6 lbs. and
can reliably be expected to soak up small shrapnel and even will stop an
AK-47 round. The bad news: Hot as shit to wear, almost unbearable in the
summer heat (which averages over 120 degrees). Also, the enemy now goes for
head shots whenever possible. All the bullshit about the old body armor
making our guys vulnerable to the IEDs was a non-starter. The IED explosions
are enormous and body armor doesn't make any difference at all in most
cases.

12) Night Vision and Infrared Equipment: Thumbs way up. Spectacular
performance. Our guys see in the dark and own the night, period. Very little
enemy action after evening prayers. More and more enemy being whacked at
night during movement by our hunter-killer teams. We've all seen the videos.

13) Lights: Thumbs up. Most of the weapon mounted and personal lights are
Surefires, and the troops love em. Invaluable for night urban operations.
Jordan carried a $34 Surefire G2 on a neck lanyard and loved it.

I cant help but notice that most of the good fighting weapons and ordnance
are 50 or more years old!!!!!!!!! With all our technology, its the WWII and
Vietnam era weapons that everybody wants!!!! The infantry fighting is
frequent, up close and brutal. No quarter is given or shown.

Bad guy weapons:

1) Mostly AK47s . The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in the
desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. PKM belt fed
light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the enemy mostly
shoots like shit. Undisciplined spray and pray type fire. However, they are
seeing more and more precision weapons, especially sniper rifles. (Iran,
again) Fun fact: Captured enemy have apparently marveled at the marksmanship
of our guys and how hard they fight. They are apparently told in Jihad
school that the Americans rely solely on technology, and can be easily
beaten in close quarters combat for their lack of toughness. Lets just say
they know better now.

2) The RPG: Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys. Simple,
reliable and as common as dogshit. The enemy responded to our up-armored
humvees by aiming at the windshields, often at point blank range. Still
killing a lot of our guys.

3) The IED: The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet
anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in
Jordansarea were in abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155mm
artillery
shells and wire them together. Most were detonated by cell phone, and the
explosions are enormous. You're not safe in any vehicle, even an M1 tank.
Driving is by far the most dangerous thing our guys do over there. Lately,
they are much more sophisticated shape charges (Iranian) specifically
designed to penetrate armor.

Fact: Most of the ready made IEDs are supplied by Iran, who is also
providing terrorists (Hezbollah types) to train the insurgents in their use
and tactics. Thats why the attacks have been so deadly lately. Their
concealment methods are ingenious, the latest being shape charges in
Styrofoam containers spray painted to look like the cinderblocks that litter
all Iraqi roads. We find about 40% before they detonate, and the bomb
disposal guys are unsung heroes of this war.

4) Mortars and rockets: Very prevalent. The soviet era 122mm rockets (with
an 18km range) are becoming more prevalent. One of Jordans NCOs lost a leg
to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage inside the wire. Jordans base
was hit almost daily his entire time there by mortar and rocket fire, often
at night to disrupt sleep patterns and cause fatigue (It did). More of a
psychological weapon than anything else. The enemy mortar teams would jump
out of vehicles, fire a few rounds, and then haul ass in a matter of
seconds.

5) Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective. Most communication is by cell
and satellite phones, and also by email on laptops. They use handheld GPS
units for navigation and Google earth for overhead views of our positions.
Their weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent. Their explosives and
bomb technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision is rare. They are very
careless with their equipment and the captured GPS units and laptops are
treasure troves of Intel when captured.

Who are the bad guys?:

Most of the carnage is caused by the Zarqawi Al Qaeda group. They operate
mostly in Anbar province (Fallujah and Ramadi). These are mostly foreigners,
non-Iraqi Sunni Arab Jihadists from all over the Muslim world (and Europe).
Most enter Iraq through Syria (with, of course, the knowledge and complicity
of the Syrian govt.) , and then travel down the at line which is the trail
of towns along the Euphrates River that weve been hitting hard for the last
few months. Some are virtually untrained young Jihadists that often end up
as suicide bombers or in sacrifice squads. Most, however, are hard core
terrorists from all the usual suspects (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.)
These are the guys running around murdering civilians en masse and cutting
heads off. The Chechens (many of whom are Caucasian), are supposedly the
most ruthless and the best fighters. (they have been fighting the Russians
for years). In the Baghdad area and south, most of the insurgents are
Iranian inspired (and led) Iraqi Shiites. The Iranian Shiia have been very
adept at infiltrating the Iraqi local govt., the police forces and the Army.
The have had a massive spy and agitator network there since the Iran-Iraq
war in the early 80s. Most of the Saddam loyalists were killed, captured or
gave up long ago.

Bad Guy Tactics:

When they are engaged on an infantry level they get their asses kicked every
time. Brave, but stupid. Suicidal Banzai-type charges were very common
earlier in the war and still occur. They will literally sacrifice 8-10 man
teams in suicide squads by sending them screaming and firing Aks and RPGs
directly at our bases just to probe the defenses. They get mowed down like
grass every time. (see the M2 and M240 above). Jordans base was hit like
this often. When engaged, they have a tendency to flee to the same building,
probably for what they think will be a glorious last stand. Instead, we call
in air and thats the end of that more often than not. These hole-ups are
referred to as Alpha Whiskey Romeos (Allahs Waiting Room). We have the laser
guided ground-air thing down to a science. The fast movers, mostly Marine
F-18s, are taking an ever increasing toll on the enemy. When caught out in
the open, the helicopter gunships and AC-130 Spectre gunships cut them to
ribbons with cannon and rocket fire, especially at night. Interestingly,
artillery is hardly used at all.

Fun fact:

The enemy death toll is supposedly between 45-50 thousand. That is why were
seeing less and less infantry attacks and more IED, suicide bomber shit. The
new strategy is simple: attrition.

The insurgent tactic most frustrating is their use of civilian
non-combatants as cover. They know we do all we can to avoid civilian
casualties and therefore schools, hospitals and (especially) Mosques are
locations where they meet, stage for attacks, cache weapons and ammo and
flee to when engaged. They have absolutely no regard whatsoever for civilian
casualties. They will terrorize locals and murder without hesitation anyone
believed to be sympathetic to the Americans or the new Iraqi govt.
Kidnapping of family members (especially children) is common to influence
people they are trying to influence but cant reach, such as local govt.
officials, clerics, tribal leaders, etc.).

The first thing our guys are told is don't get captured. They know that if
captured they will be tortured and beheaded on the internet. Zarqawi openly
offers bounties for anyone who brings him a live American serviceman. This
motivates the criminal element who otherwise don't give a shit about the
war. A lot of the beheading victims were actually kidnapped by common
criminals and sold to Zarqawi. As such, for our guys, every fight is to the
death. Surrender is not an option.

The Iraqis are a mixed bag. Some fight well, others aren't worth a shit.
Most do okay with American support. Finding leaders is hard, but they are
getting better. It is widely viewed that Zarqawis use of suicide bombers, en
masse, against the civilian population was a serious tactical mistake. Many
Iraqis were galvanized and the caliber of recruits in the Army and the
police forces went up, along with their motivation. It also led to an
exponential increase in good intel because the Iraqis are sick of the
insurgent attacks against civilians.

The Kurds are solidly pro-American and fearless fighters.

According to Jordan, morale among our guys is very high. They not only
believe they are winning, but that they are winning decisively. They are
stunned and dismayed by what they see in the American press, whom they
almost universally view as against them. The embedded reporters are despised
and distrusted. They are inflicting casualties at a rate of 20-1 and then
see shit like Are we losing in Iraq on TV and the print media. For the most
part, they are satisfied with their equipment, food and leadership. Bottom
line though, and they all say this, there are not enough guys there to drive
the final stake through the heart of the insurgency, primarily because there
aren't enough troops in-theater to shut down the borders with Iran and
Syria. The Iranians and the Syrians just cant stand the thought of
Iraqbeing an American ally (with, of course, permanent US bases
there).

Anyway guys, thats it, hope you found it interesting, I sure did.


 On 11/17/05, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>
> It's not an "insurgent war." That's the media hype, and unfortunately too
> many "buy into" the phrase. They're not insurgents, they're from other
> countries. Even those opposed to the war on this list have acknowledged as
> much when they say that a major mistake was not sealing the borders. There's
> no problem with sealing the borders, unless the "insurgents" were OUTSIDE
> those borders.
>
> Bizarre? So, you think that Saddam would have kept his "horrors" local had
> he not been stopped at the borders? I think the comparison of the Iraq war
> to WWII is MUCH more valid than the comparison to the Vietnam war (even
> though I think a better comparison would be to WWI). The big difference in
> the WWII (or WWI) analogies is that this time we got involved early on.
>
> Herb Parsons
>
> S/V O'Jure
> 1976 O'Day 25
> Lake Grapevine, N TX
>
> S/V Reve de Papa
> 1971 Coronado 35
> Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
>
> >>> saroj at pathfind.net 11/17/2005 12:31:41 PM >>>
> Brad, this wasn't a CNN scoop.. Murtha was speaking himself.
>
> Murtha along with others who have experienced an insurgent war (e.g.,
> Rummy)
> seem to have some idea about how a war like this needs to be fought.. is
> it
> possible that in the Fall of 2003 he could see that the path the US was
> taking was doomed to failure?
>
> I think to compare our invasion of Iraq to WWII is bizarre at best.
> Between
> the Germans and the Japanese, the horrors were widespread and extreme. If
> you "remember", we were VERY late getting into this war.. far too late in
> my
> view.
>
> I also supported the war with Iraq based on the presentation of
> intelligence
> presented by Colin Powell "prior" to our going to war.. I don't now and
> haven't for months... irrespective of any polls... I certainly don't
> consider myself a sheep and could give a crap about how the masses think
> about it.
>
> Saroj
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "brad haslett" <flybrad at yahoo.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] stirring the hornet's nest.... (political) -
> JohnMurtha chimes in
>
>
> > Saroj,
> >
> > Murtha voted to go to war, then as early as Fall of
> > 2003, gave a joint press conference with Pelosi
> > condeming the conduct of the war. One of his beefs
> > was that the Pentagon wasn't answering his letters.
> > Maybe he isn't as respected as he thinks. He called
> > for troop withdrawals in the Spring of 2004 so CNN
> > hardly has a scoop. With Bush at new lows in the
> > polls and the Iraq war losing support, expect a lot
> > more in Congress to jump on the withdrawal bandwagon.
> > They were all for war when the public sentiment was
> > behind it. Are they following their real gut
> > instincts or like sheep, following the polls? Even
> > former President Clinton is testing the waters on the
> > anti-war front, though this is in complete opposition
> > to a multitude of speeches and statements he made
> > during his administration. Thank goodness these
> > spineless cowards weren't around during D-Day. We'd
> > have pulled out at the first hedgerow.
> >
> > Brad
> >
> > --- Saroj Gilbert <saroj at pathfind.net> wrote:
> >
> >> John Murtha from PA, highly respected (by the
> >> Pentagon) is right now calling
> >> for a complete withdrawal of U.S. troops in Iraq....
> >> on CNN.
> >>
> >> Saroj
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "brad haslett" <flybrad at yahoo.com>
> >> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> >> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:37 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] stirring the hornet's
> >> nest.... (political)
> >>
> >>
> >> > Wally,
> >> >
> >> > The Iraq war is so politized that one has to
> >> research
> >> > many diverse sources, including first hand
> >> information
> >> > like that from your neiphew, to find out what is
> >> > really going on. In all due respect, your neiphew
> >> is
> >> > looking at one small piece of the pie, however,
> >> his
> >> > observations are echoed by others looking at that
> >> same
> >> > small slice. Progress is being made in terms of
> >> > school openings, electricity grids being restored
> >> > beyond pre-war status, clean drinking water, etc.
> >> > But, the biggest gains are being made in
> >> > self-government. The Sunnis didn't take to the
> >> street
> >> > with weapons in anticipation of the vote on a new
> >> > constitution, THEY REGISTERED TO VOTE. How
> >> quickly we
> >> > forget those images of millions of purple fingers.
> >> To
> >> > suggest that democracy can't work in Iraq, or any
> >> > Muslim country, dooms a billion people to a life
> >> of
> >> > dictators and tyranny. What are the alternatives?
> >> > Fourteen of nineteen 9/11 attackers came from one
> >> of
> >> > the wealthiest nations in the region with a
> >> massive
> >> > welfare state. As a general rule, democracies
> >> don't
> >> > attack other democracies. Now as to the current
> >> > debate in Congress, several members have developed
> >> > amnesia about their earlier positions because a
> >> new
> >> > political season is upon us. This is shameful. To
> >> > suggest that they were duped by a President that
> >> they
> >> > imply is "dumb as a box of rocks" would imply that
> >> > they didn't do their due diligence before voting.
> >> > Setting a time specific schedule for withdrawal is
> >> > ludicrous. All the insurgents have to do is wait
> >> out
> >> > the withdrawal and make their move. THIS IS
> >> EXACTLY
> >> > WHAT HAPPENED IN VIETNAM. They no doubt have read
> >> > their history books and study the political
> >> landscape
> >> > in the US as well.
> >> >
> >> > I apologize for once more resorting to "windy"
> >> > references, as you would describe them, however,
> >> here
> >> > is a video of a speech that is worth reviewing.
> >> Was he
> >> > lying?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> http://thepoliticalteen.net/2005/11/16/clintoniraq/
> >> >
> >> > Here is an interesting article on WMD's.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> > http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20154
> >> >
> >> > Brad
> >> >
> >> > --- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Brad,
> >> >>
> >> >> Like Slim I would rather hear your opinion not
> >> the
> >> >> windy words of others.
> >> >> You make some valid points along with
> >> speculation.
> >> >> It seems clear to me that
> >> >> our leaders (the whole nation) were scared after
> >> 911
> >> >> and we had to do
> >> >> something. Bush had been itching to go after Irag
> >> >> long before 911. Many of
> >> >> our leaders (from both sides) showed how limited
> >> >> their thinking realy is.
> >> >> They did not know what else to do so we attacked
> >> >> Iraq. I am not so sure that
> >> >> Bush lied just to help out Haliburton. I think he
> >> >> rushed into this without
> >> >> taking the time to make certain we had the facts.
> >> >> Picking a fight is easy.
> >> >> Figuring out aternative solution requires skills
> >> >> that Bush just does not
> >> >> have.
> >> >>
> >> >> I will also add that many of the so called
> >> >> insurgents are from Iraq. My
> >> >> Nephew recently returned from a year in Iraq
> >> under
> >> >> private contract. His
> >> >> mission was to help train the Iraqui Police
> >> force.
> >> >> You wouldn't believe how
> >> >> poorly this is going. He is a gun-ho ex Army
> >> Ranger
> >> >> and I respect his
> >> >> opinion. By the way he just got the word last
> >> week,
> >> >> he starts his new job
> >> >> with the FBI March 06.
> >> >>
> >> >> One day we will learn that if a country doesn't
> >> ask
> >> >> for our help we
> >> >> shouldn't force it upon them. Seems to me there
> >> is a
> >> >> better way to help them
> >> >> blowing the crap out of people.
> >> >>
> >> >> Wally
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >From: brad haslett <flybrad at yahoo.com>
> >> >> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> >> >> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> >> >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> >> >> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> >> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] stirring the
> >> hornet's
> >> >> nest.... (political)
> >> >> >Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 06:01:08 -0800 (PST)
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Wally, Rummy, et al,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >What the hell, our Gulfport attorney won't be in
> >> >> her
> >> >> >office for another hour so why not entertain
> >> myself
> >> >> >with this?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Rummy, you accuse me of chest thumping and then
> >> go
> >> >> on
> >> >> >to beat your own. I can hear it all the way to
> >> >> >Tennessee. Read the rest of your post and get
> >> back
> >> >> to
> >> >> >me on that issue. Re-read my disclaimer on
> >> >> Buchanan.
> >> >> >He is not one of my favorites but that doesn't
> >> mean
> >> >> he
> >> >> >isn't dead on from time to time. I quote the
> >> >> >Clinton's when they are correct on issues, my
> >> >> personal
> >> >> >distaste for Billy which dates back to long
> >> before
> >> >> he
> >> >> >was President notwithstanting. Argue the
> >> message,
> >> >> not
> >> >> >the messenger. I couldn't agree more on the
> >> fiscal
> >> >> >responsibility issues and that is why Bush is in
> >> >> such
> >> >> >trouble with some elements of GOP - like me.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Wally, I thought I made it clear that I was
> >> pressed
> >> >> >for time and didn't want to engage in a point
> >> for
> >> >> >point debate with Slim, but this shouldn't take
> >> >> long.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"First the tyranny of Saddam. This is no reason
> >> to
> >> >> >invade a sovereign state.The US has ignored or
> >> even
> >> >> >supported so many tyrants I can't count 'em.
> >> But
> >> >> just
> >>
> > === message truncated ===
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
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