[Rhodes22-list] Reply to David Bradley, sailing blogg

Mon Sep 5 23:57:23 EDT 2005

Thanks, Stan, Brad and Ed and others.  No offense taken; just thought I
had done somebody wrong.  I'll get the hang of it.  Someone needs to
help Bill stick up for the rest of the liberal Northeast.

And Brad, when I multiply 12.5 million households time 5 people
(assuming the government only lets them have one kid but at least two of
their parents are living with them), I think I get to the 5% of 1.2
billion souls that you mentioned.  Number aside, aren't we saying the
same thing -- that the advent of the Chinese middle class is a myth?  By
the way, the EIU didn't use the Chinese gov't as their data source.
I'll find the name of the firm they cited and let you know.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 1:16 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Reply to David Bradley, sailing blogg

Dave,

You have to love this list.

In this response, Ed is on target.

He knows I love him even if he gets some of it wrong.sometimes and Rummy
has 
to nudge him a little.  Truman had it right with his "The buck stops
here".

stan/ec

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 7:58 AM
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Reply to David Bradley, sailing blogg

Dave:
I hope that you do not leave this forum over this incident.
Understand that this sailing list is more than reporting on having a
good
sail.  Most of the political wags can answer hard sailing questions.
History has shown that if there are not unrelated posts, then there will
be
a flurry of post stating, "This is a test" or "Is this list working".
We agreed several years ago that anything goes when we moved off the
old sailnet list.  A couple of years later, the List Administrator,
Michael
Meltzer, got us the ability to attach pictures.  When there is a real
question this group can respond with good answers, pictures, and
diagrams.
When it comes to social and political issues, you will observe we
have an extreme cross section of America.  Many members of this forum
have
met, dined and socialized together.  On the list, we have a couple of
members who just like to "stir the pot".  We even have some Canadians on
this list.
Think of this list as the "Original Blogg".

Ed K
Greenville, SC, USA
Addendum:  "The truth shall make you free, but first it shall make you
angry" Anonymous quotes
Post Script:  Sailing was mostly good on Lake Hartwell yesterday, water
still warm, winds 0 to 8, sunset reddish orange, many sailboats with
several
having spinnaker runs down the middle of the big water.  I was the only
Rhodes 22, so come on down.

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of brad haslett
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 3:39 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Leaving China

Dave,

Take no offense.  Leaving China with a sense of
"energy" is a common experience given the sheer volume
of activity, growth, and presence of construction
cranes visible in the most remote of locations.  Most
of our Chinese friends are here in the US, naturalized
citizens, and were in their 30's or older when they
left China.  Discussions about the Chinese government
can get pretty irreverent at our dinner table when
Party statistics surface.  For example, my wife
attended undergrad school in Wuhan, about the same
latitude as Memphis.  It gets hot as hell in Wuhan but
never above 34C according to the paper, still a source
of amusement at class reunions.  Had I been there for
that briefing and it was just prior to lunch, I'd have
auto-nodded with a smirk on my face.  After lunch (and
perhaps a few drinks) I'd have asked, "Sir, what is
the source of your numbers?" Having said that, I
understand what sitting through corporate meetings
with mixed nationalities is like, allowing your hosts
to "save face", and not asking uncomfortable
questions, ie, "is this hundred year plan something
like the 'Great Leap Forward'? China is both a
tremendous opportunity and a source of endless
frustration.  I love China and am amazed by their
progress, but it ain't the USA.  Is it ever great to
be home!  Now if I could just get to sleep.

Brad

--- "Bradley, David" <david.bradley at sap.com> wrote:

> To all, I'm sorry this stirred up a political
> debate.  It was not my
> intention to do so, and I gracefully bow out.  I was
> trying to share the
> energy I felt upon leaving China.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]
> Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 10:56 PM
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Leaving China
>
> This will be quick, I have to pack and have one last
> family dinner before catching United to ORD.  I'm
> ready to re-pollute my nose with Memphis pollen
> versus
> Beijing dust.
>
> Ed, Dave, Shelly - you each got part of the puzzle
> right.  Ed - Never underestimate the power of Party
> to
> go nuts when threatened.  Shelly - couldn't agree
> more. If people think population control is such a
> bad
> thing, they should feed them.  Every time I have to
> drive through an abortion demonstration in Memphis I
> lose control, roll down the window and ask, "how
> many
> adopted children live in your household"? Dave -
> yes,
> there are lots of eager and talented young Chinese.
> I
> hope your company didn't pay for the briefing from
> the
> Economist Intelligence Unit.  The Economist is a
> wonderful magazine but it seems they might have
> gotten
> a bit lazy in their research and need some new
> batteries for their calculator.  The number the EIU
> quoted is from a recent study by the Chinese Academy
> of Social Sciences (CASS).  CASS revised their
> previous estimate of "middle class" from 15% to less
> than 5%.  I'm all for correcting mistakes but that's
> an adjustment of 130 million people.  You quoted 12
> million "middle class".  Multiply 1.3 billion by 5%
> and tell me what number you get. Look at the new car
> sales figures intra-China for the last five years
> and
> tell me if those numbers add-up.  Me thinks the EIU
> may be reading the People's Daily a bit too much and
> not consistantly at that. The very definition of
> middle class is a sensitive subject with the Party
> and
> gets revised to suit the political concern "de
> jeur".
> Do you smell a rat?  It would have been difficult
> for
> me to have sat through that briefing without raising
> the bullshit flag.
>
> Happy holiday, y'all.
>
> Brad
>
>
>
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