[Rhodes22-list] BR Panels
Slim
salm at mn.rr.com
Fri Feb 3 13:33:13 EST 2006
Bill,
Sorry but my BR is inaccessible until spring. But Stan built the thing in
the first place--he must have the dimensions.
On 2/3/06 9:06 AM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> Slim,
>
> Before we start openly publishing specifications, I think we must
> resolve the Intellectual Property issues between ourselves. Developing
> panel specs is the key dimension, along with the fact that Stan now
> favors a slightly different frame construction than the one used on your
> boat.
>
> I assume we will find a way to proceed, in which case we will want a
> more detailed narrative from you if you have the time to provide one.
> Also, I hope your panels and frame are in a place where you can make
> measurements for us.
>
> Bill Effros
>
> Slim wrote:
>
>> Dave,
>>
>> Not true. That's exactly what I have--solid panels OR screens the same
>> size--a la carte.
>>
>> Slim
>>
>> On 2/2/06 10:16 PM, "David Bradley" <dwbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Bill, one clarification. Stan does not have a completed design for
>>> the interchangeable panels, but believes it is the right concept to
>>> develop. The idea we kicked around was to make the side panels as
>>> similar as possible to allow for maximum flexibility and lowest cost,
>>> then let people buy a la carte. I think this is a more evolved
>>> concept than what Slim has now, but as you say, it's headed in that
>>> direction.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On 2/2/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dave,
>>>>
>>>> How exciting! Nice job. Couldn't have hoped for better!
>>>>
>>>> Slim,
>>>>
>>>> The pictures posted were fine for us all to get a look at your rig. It
>>>> is very different from the boom room posted on the GB site, and I think
>>>> most of us couldn't understand what was wrong with it as far as Stan was
>>>> concerned. It looked good to us, and several people took the time to
>>>> say so. Clearly you get a lot of use out of it, and you are in a
>>>> position to give us lots of pointers. Yours is the prototype, and we
>>>> will listen more closely than usual to what you have to say on this matter.
>>>>
>>>> As soon as I have time, I will post pictures I have gathered showing
>>>> dodger/awning combinations developed by marine canvas fabricators. This
>>>> is the approach Stan seems to have rejected, and that's good enough for
>>>> me. These designs seem to run in the $5000+ range. I am posting them
>>>> only for reference.
>>>>
>>>> As I understand Dave's report, Stan has developed a fairly simple set of
>>>> interchangeable panels that will work on any R-22, and maybe many other
>>>> boats as well. He has advised us to stay away from the costly marine
>>>> fabricators and develop local talent to produce a standard product.
>>>>
>>>> Stan feels the load bearing frame can be improved, without the need to
>>>> change the fabric panels--so we can develop patterns without regard to
>>>> the final frame design--the frame must fit the panels, and not the other
>>>> way around. One size panels fits all size boats. No prior purchase
>>>> necessary.
>>>>
>>>> OK -- so who is still in? I'm in for every panel we make. I know Dave
>>>> is in. Slim has a PVC frame we can use as a frame pattern and
>>>> prototype. What material shall we use for the first frame we make? Is
>>>> wood an option for a prototype? (We have people on the list who are
>>>> very good with wood.) Stainless Steel? Aluminum? Can we use
>>>> telescoping boat poles with custom fittings on the ends to link them
>>>> together?
>>>>
>>>> How much do we think this will cost? We have to leave enough money to
>>>> pay for replacement frames for early failed prototypes. Can the panels
>>>> be made of better or lesser materials depending on the intended use?
>>>>
>>>> First we have to sort out who is still in. The project will move
>>>> forward even if the answer is "nobody but Bill". Early adopters will
>>>> buy at cost, and their needs will be more heavily factored into the
>>>> final design of the project.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all who have helped get us to this point. Your input,
>>>> thoughts, grumblings will improve the final design--please keep them
>>>> coming.
>>>>
>>>> I'm going off to look at Slim's pictures again. The ones I have show a
>>>> lot of detail (I work on a 20" screen, and there is a lot of detail in
>>>> what I have downloaded.) If I need to see more, I will surely ask.
>>>> Luckily, Stan has already seen what Slim has, and that's probably the
>>>> most important thing.
>>>>
>>>> Back to work. I'm still running behind.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David Bradley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I had the great pleasure of visiting Stan and Rose yesterday at GBI
>>>>> world headquarters in Edenton. In between looking at my beautiful new
>>>>> R22 in mid-production and a nice dinner (at Waterman's), we talked at
>>>>> length about the boom room project.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the risk of not relaying it completely accurately, here is Stan's
>>>>> thinking on a "best" boom room design. (Stan, please correct me as
>>>>> needed.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Boom Room Design Parameters:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Primary use is for overnight camping, and design should maximize
>>>>> benefits for this primary usage.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Not integrated with Pop Top Enclosure - removes complexity factor
>>>>> and improves economics/ease of set-up.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Fabric is sail cloth, with roof panel treated for water resistance.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. Roof panel rests on top of boom as main support beam.
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. Must have rigid frame at roof panel perimeter; other roof support
>>>>> members TBD.
>>>>> a. Evaluate frame materials for lightweight rigid frame that
>>>>> is easy to store
>>>>> b. Consider aluminum tubes with crimp/socket connections, and
>>>>> shock cords
>>>>> c. Explore design for "yokes" to fit over boom as supporting
>>>>> "rafters"
>>>>> (see drawings if I can figure out how to attach)
>>>>>
>>>>> 6. Multiple side/front/rear panels with optional screen and clear
>>>>> plastic sections.
>>>>>
>>>>> 7. Side/rear panels zip in place and snap to gunwale; taught snapped
>>>>> panels provide lateral roof support; no need to attach to stays.
>>>>> a. Lower boom slightly to assemble, then raise boom to tension
>>>>> panels
>>>>> b. If using roof panel only as shade tent, run cords/straps
>>>>> from perimeter
>>>>> frame to gunwales for lateral support
>>>>>
>>>>> 8. Front panel snaps across cabin trunk top, leaving hatches outside boom
>>>>> room
>>>>>
>>>>> 9. Forward edge is in front of mast and inside forward side shrouds;
>>>>> aft side shrouds are disconnected for boom room set-up; topping lift
>>>>> line runs next to mast; roof panel seals around mast.
>>>>>
>>>>> 10. Rear panel fastens inside rear stays and stern rail and snaps to
>>>>> gunwale, with enough tension to ensure rain will slide down the angeld
>>>>> surface; evaluate whether a "shoulder" can be created by adding ties
>>>>> to stern rail (similar to how an umbrella tent has outside ties to the
>>>>> exterior frame).
>>>>>
>>>>> Net, the design that Slim has (which Stan made for the original owner)
>>>>> is pretty close to what Stan thinks is optimal. The idea of multiple
>>>>> panel options (solid, screen and clear) gives it the Rhodes
>>>>> flexibility and quality, while keeping sizes down. Where he has never
>>>>> been happy is with frame designs. He leans toward aluminum or
>>>>> stainless with the "crimp and socket" (somebody tell me if there's a
>>>>> techincal term) type fitting and shock cords used in tents. The
>>>>> individual pieces need to be short enough to fit under cockpit seats
>>>>> or in lazarette.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stan is more than happy to have some help in project managing this,
>>>>> which Bill and I are doing for now. Stan will advise as we go. He
>>>>> thinks we should work with small fabricators to get a prototype built
>>>>> vs. working with someone "in the sailboat business."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Next Steps:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Finalize design specs and obtain firm committments.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Create prototype, beginning with frame fabricator.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please reply with comments and suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave Bradley
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. I tried attaching a jpeg file with drawings. First is of an
>>>>> idea Stan has for a yoke that would also serve as a support rafter for
>>>>> roof panel. Second is a not-to-scale sketch of the numbers and types
>>>>> of interchangeable panels.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Name: Slide1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 27841 bytes Desc: not available
>>>>> Url:
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200602/02/Slide1.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Name: Slide2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 68477 bytes Desc: not available
>>>>> Url:
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200602/02/Slide2.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> David Bradley
>>> 203.253.9973
>>> dwbrad at gmail.com
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>
>>
> __________________________________________________
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