[Rhodes22-list] Boom Room Syndicate

[Bill Effros]

Todd,

I'm just starting to sort though.  Lots of interesting ideas.

This is a very different situation.  We are not trying to knock off 
Stan's product.  We can design one from scratch, pool our resources, and 
each come up with the best possible boom room at the lowest possible 
cost.  Even if you can't afford one now, as part of the syndicate you 
can pick yours up when you can afford it, or you can contribute design 
and manufacturing in lieu of cash. 

Then we can either give the whole thing to Stan, and let him produce 
them from now on, or we can make them for Stan, and let him sell 
them--Stan's option.

Like you, I think the Boom Room is an incredible addition to the boat 
that can be used in many ways, and that will be used by most owners of 
the boat.

I don't mind setting things up and tearing them down provided they are 
not in my way when I don't need them, and they are not so difficult to 
set up and tear down that I never choose to do so.

The PTE is a great example of something that adds a lot of functionality 
with minimal use of space.  Anyone can set it up or tear it down in 10 
minutes.  You can do it in the dark.  The resulting space is more 
comfortable than most cabins on larger sail boats.

The Boom Room should work as a Bimini or Sun Shade; extra rain cover 
during showers, dining room with the cabin as a large galley, breakfast 
room while others sleep below, and oversize cabin at night.  By using 
the same large space in a half dozen different ways, you really will get 
the functionality of a much larger boat.

Slim shows that if you have it, you will use it.

I've got to be away from my computer for a while, but will get right 
back to this as soon as I can.  It's an exciting project, and your input 
is welcome.

Art,

I've saved everything that's come through on this topic, and I've got 
your stuff, as well, even though I didn't comment at the time.  
Thoughts, experiences, etc. are all welcome.  We'll build several of 
these things, and we'll learn as we go. 

Bill Effros

Todd Zumach wrote:

>Slim,  is your boat the "Fandango"? I have a bunch of pictures of that fine
>vessel with a boom room that sounds suspiciously like what you described.  I
>especially like the idea of sail slides to support the roof (although I have
>to admit I did not notice them in the photos until I read your post).  I can
>appreciate that as an owner of a current boom room, you would not be
>interested in a bimini.
>
>I am enamored with the concept of a multi-functional boom room.  While at
>this time I don't see myself in the market for one, I have spent a few too
>many hours thinking about the boom room concept and it's relationship to a
>bimini and the pop top enclosure.
>
>My take on the concept is that it should strive to emulate Admiral Spitzer's
>multi-use attributes of many of the other features on our boats.  A
>"modular" boom room that has functionality as a bimini (that can be used
>while undersail) and that interfaces (or perhaps doesn't need to) with a pop
>top enclosure would provide the greatest flexibility for the skipper and
>crew.
>
>If those were not lofty enough goals, I have a few more suggestions that
>could be thrown into the mix.
>
>First, the structure should be built with stainless tubing so that it is
>strong enough keep the bimini open while sitting at port when those breezes
>come up that would tear off an aluminum frame (that happened to my boss'
>fishing boat this summer).
>
>A second goal of this design would be that the skipper would be able to sit
>on the gunwhale or in those wonderful optional skipper's seats whether the
>bimini/boom room is up or down.
>
>Third, most of our vessels are equiped with a set of long genoa car tracks
>(I have seen pictures on the web with the bimini attached to the genoa
>tracks). The genoa tracks could be used to allow flexibility in fore/aft
>movement of the structure. For example, the bimini function could be set
>with the structure slid to aft to provide skipper with maximum shade or
>forward to give the crew better shade. Further, it would be great if the
>bimini structure could be closed and tipped to the stern (inside the stern
>rails) and come to rest along the inside edge of the cockpit/transom wall.
>This would solve the problem of what to do with the bimini on those days
>when it is not desired. One concern with this proposed design is that those
>boats with the gunwhale mounted skipper's chairs may present an interference
>problem. Perhaps the bimini frame uprights could have a curved contour that
>would provide clearance around those seats.  I have a 1986 model with the
>"old" design straighter stern railing that is mounted on the outside of the
>gunwhale wall.  As such, as I have thought of using a stainless or aluminum
>plate in order to offset the seat from the straight stern rails.  The bimini
>frame could possibly slide just behind my skipper's seats (assuming I get
>around to adding them).
>
>Fourth, our boats have nice strong stern rails.  A bimini/boom room that
>attaches to the stern rail would have an extra level of sturdiness. Perhaps
>a separate overhead rail mechanism could be used when you want to "expand"
>the bimini into the boom room.  You could slide the bimini forward to
>interface with the cabin wall or pop top enclosure (with a interface panel).
>The rear rail could be a segmented device that stores under the cockpit
>seats. When attached to the stern rail this mechanism could provide the
>extra head room to allow a person to sit in the skipper's seats.
>
>I like Slim's idea of using sail cloth to reduce weight.  It might be
>interesting to have heavier "bimini" material like Sunbrella, that could
>stand up to being exposed to the weather all the time and lighter material
>that is used for the sides, rear "expansion" panel and the front expansion
>panels that would interface with the cabin wall or pop top enclosure.  It
>goes without saying that this "ultimate" bimini/boom room would have screen
>and/or clear panels for some of the side walls that could be zipped into
>place.
>
>Finally, the bimini structure should be as tall (off the cockpit floor) as
>possible. At 6'4" I am sensitive to such things. It would be great to not
>have to stoop while in the cockpit.  I assume that the bimini would only be
>used when the boom is in the highest position.  Although I haven't sailed in
>any real "blows", I have utilized the boom in the lower position to decrease
>the center of effort.  I figure that if the wind is blowing so hard that I
>would want to lower the boom, I would have already lowered the pop top and
>dropped the bimini to reduce windage.
>
>I know, there are a lot of expensive ideas found above.  But hey, I guy has
>to dream!  I look forward to reading your responses (Bill and MJM please be
>gentle on me).
>
>Todd Zumach
>
>On 1/26/06, Slim <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>I have a boom room and like it a lot.  We discussed this last summer and I
>>posted a load of pics.  I'll post them again if anybody needs them.
>>My comments below:
>>Slim
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I don't think we will ever have the volume to justify Chinese
>>>      
>>>
>>manufacture.
>>
>>I agree.
>>    
>>
>>>What do you want in your Boom Room?
>>>
>>>What are the best features according to those who have them?
>>>      
>>>
>>The best feature is the shelter it provides.  We've dined and slept in the
>>cockpit during heavy rain and have been very comfortable.  Mine covers the
>>entire cockpit with standing head room, it goes over the pop top and the
>>sides snap on the outside of the toe rails so it encloses more than the
>>pop
>>top enclosure--that is, it covers the side decks. However, that makes it
>>harder to go from the cockpit to the bow and there's an issue with the aft
>>lower shrouds.  But it has versatility galore.  We can use just the roof
>>for
>>a sun shade or we can add the side panels for more protection and privacy.
>>The sides have either solid or screen panels (although I wouldn't say it's
>>completely bug-proof).  If I remove the rear panel I can stand up on the
>>laz
>>hatch and tend to the barbeque mounted on the stern pulpit.  We can even
>>sail with it set up but only downwind on the jib alone.
>>    
>>
>>>Do we know anyone who could make up a bunch for us?
>>>
>>>What are the design specifications going to be?
>>>
>>>What materials should we use?
>>>      
>>>
>>Mine is white dacron sailcloth which I like very much.  I think if you
>>made
>>it out of canvass it would be too heavy and bulky to stow and not any
>>sturdier than sailcloth.  Ours folds up to a bundle about the same size as
>>our pop top encl.  Also it's stuffable if you don't want to fold it.
>>    
>>
>>>Should it be supported by poles from the bottom, or suspended by the
>>>halyard from the top?
>>>      
>>>
>>Mine hangs from the boom.  You rotate the boom so it's upside down and
>>slide
>>the roof tabs into the slot.  There are five tabs are just standard sail
>>slides stitched onto the roof piece.  Then the roof is spread out by a
>>grid
>>of 1" pvc pipe and the side panels hang down from the edges.  The side
>>panels are attached to the roof with either zippers or strips of velcro.
>>The grid all comes apart and stows easily and the pieces are easily and
>>cheaply replaced if broken.  I admit the grid is a little clumsy to set up
>>and the girls don't bother with it when I'm not there.  With their help,
>>we
>>can set it up in about 20 minutes.  By myself I can set it up in 15.  8-)
>>    
>>
>>>Should it fit every boat, or require modifications for older boats?
>>>      
>>>
>>I'm unaware of any differences in the basic dimensions of hull, cockpit,
>>pop
>>top, mast step and boom.  One size fits all.  (But I could be wrong.)
>>    
>>
>>>Should it require a Pop-Top Enclosure, or should it cover the Pop Top,
>>>and replace the Pop Top Enclosure?
>>>      
>>>
>>I still use the pop top enclosure by itself sometimes.  The PTE is great
>>and
>>much easier to set up when you don't need the big room.  We usually set up
>>one or the other but both can be set up.  Sometimes we set up the PTE and
>>later decide to set up the BR.  There's no need to take down the PTE
>>because
>>the BR sets up over all that.
>>    
>>
>>>Should it use the Bimini as support from below, making it more a Bimini
>>>Room than a Boom Room?
>>>      
>>>
>>I, for one, don't have a bimini and don't really want one.
>>    
>>
>>>Lots of possibilities.  Dave plans to get one, and so do I.  We're going
>>>to spec out something now, and anyone is welcome to join in -- even if
>>>you don't plan to buy one yourself.
>>>
>>>Bill Effros
>>>
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>>>      
>>>
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>>
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