[Rhodes22-list] Baffle them with Bullshit

[3drecon]

Bill,

   Your George Soros, Nancy Pelosi Talking Points are showing again.  Nazi
Germany:  I could go on for hours.  Suffice it to say, it was a house of
cards.  They never had the resources, the oil, the population, the
production capacity. . . not to mention the political and military
mis-steps.  If the western response had been more firm and sure (ala
Churchill) Hitler wouldn't have gotten as far as he did.

   Not all resources are oil.  Choke ours off and see what happens.  Choke
off the liberal's beloved EU and see what happens.  We use oil.  We need oil
and we have to keep the commerce in that region open, or should we let the
despots close down the mid-east oil traffic?

    We launched a few cruise missiles alright.  Too little, too late under
Saint Clinton.  Let's see what the "religion of peace" had brought us.  The
first Twin Tower bombing.  The attack on our embassy in Africa.  The Khobar
Towers bombing.  And the Cole which was under Clinton's Watch (October
2000).  Not to mention Somalia which Bin Laden said was what convinced him
we would not respond to an attack on us since after Clinton expanded the
mission, he cut and ran after the attack on our Rangers (after Les Aspin
refused the commanders on the ground armored vehicles).

    I suppose you will tell me that we don't need oil as part of our
national security plan?  What has Rome to do with it?  How many 747s did
Rome have?  Cars?  Trucks? Trains?  Etc.  I guess we'll defend our country
with bronze swords and wood shields?  What does Rome command to-day (besides
Catholics)?

   When we are culturally sensative against an enemy that is neither
culturally sensative nor morally sensitive and it causes our soldiers to die
when they otherwise wouldn't, I don't make the distinction.

   I think perhaps it's time for you to stop shovelling it out.  And I
haven't once gotten a "free pass" for old time or any other sake.

Philip





-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:27 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Baffle them with Bullshit


Philip,

So nice to have your political claptrap back on the list.  It's so
scattershot, it's hard to know where to start.  You like to string
together a bunch of non sequiteurs which you seem to believe will bring
any reader to your point of view.  For me, it's just "If you can't
convince them with logic, baffle them with bullshit."

Where to start? Where to start?  History doesn't prove that might makes
right.  Nazi Germany?

Oil is a resource, but not all resources are oil.

We didn't fly airplanes into Arab buildings, we flew cruise missiles
into Arab buildings.

Yes, we do blow ourselves up around women and children, only we call it
"collateral damage".

"We need one to have the other?"  What does that mean?  Ancient Rome
didn't have oil -- still doesn't have it, today -- but they sure had
National Security.

"Culturally sensitive" has a different meaning from "morally sensitive".

What baffles our friends and delights our enemies are people who can't
see the difference.

Knowing when to act...When Clinton attacked Bin Laden, Republicans
started the "Wag the Dog" mantra.  Who were you quoting then?

What was Bush's response to the Cole attack?

And just exactly when did Bin Laden say what he based his decision to
attack us on?

You've gotten a free pass on a few go-rounds of this stuff for old
times' sake, but the days of shooting from the hip are over.

Bill Effros





3drecon wrote:
> Wally,
>     I don't separate Oil (i.e. resources) from National Security.  We need
> one to have the other; otherwise, we are at the mercy of anyone else with
> resources.   We did not fly into Arab buildings.  They flew into ours.  We
> didn't invade Kuwait, Iraq did.  We don't blow ourselves up around women
and
> children.  As a matter of fact, we willingly hamstring ourselves and cost
> our young men and women their lives as a result to be "culturally
> sensitive".  This baffles our friends there and delights our enemies.  To
a
> certain extent, might makes right, as you put it.  History proves that.
> Knowing when to act and how is the trick.  I agree with the strategy,
though
> I may differ with the specific targets at the time.  We spent too many
years
> apologising and letting the radicals have their way.  Bin Laden said he
> based his decision to attack us on our response (or lack thereof) to
> previous attacks.
>
> Philip
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of TN Rhodey
> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 7:44 AM
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Reply to Frone Crawford
>
>
> Philip,
>
> I guess you are a proponent of the old might makes right theory? I  used
> that theory on my little brother and it worked out real well. I always got
> the big piece of cake. I am not sure if this is the best strategy for
> diplomatic relations. Should we not shoot for a higher standard?
>
> You ask what better reason then oil? We should go to war when our National
> Security is threatened.
>
> Wally
>
>
>> From: "3drecon" <3drecon at comcast.net>
>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Reply to Frone Crawford
>> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 15:25:48 -0400
>>
>> Frone
>>
>> I didn't say I was comfortable with the Republicans, I said they are
closer
>> to the Libertarian philosophy than any other "electable" party to-day.  I
>> assume you allude to the Patriot Act in the "incessant drive by  the
>> Republicans to limit personal rights and invade our private acts and
>> thoughts" as well as the moral chest pounding.  I am opposed to the
Patriot
>> Act.  I think it will be/has been abused just as the RICO act was and is
>> abused.  I don't agree with the moral grand-standing any more than I
agree
>> with the liberals banning "hate" speech, becoming anti-religious and
>> forcing
>> the Bill of Rights on the States, contrary to the Founders intent.  I
also
>> don't see a conspiricy in "a propaganda machine  leading us to
pre-emptive
>> war, welfare for the agri / timber / oil companies,  selling off our
>> resources to pay the unconscionable deficits".  The real problem with oil
>> is
>> the restriction on drilling, exploration and refineries; simply, supply
and
>> demand.  I don't know what you mean about the "agri/timber issues, but if
>> that's what it takes to make our country prosperous, then that is what we
>> should do.  A poor person never gave me a job (wealthy and corporations
did
>> (and government).  I will say here that I do one of the few legitimate
>> government tasks. . . defense (and as a civilian, declassification).  I
>> assume by your comment about oil, you believe we "went to war for oil".
If
>> so, what better reason besides retaliation?  Oil is in the national
>> interest.  If we can secure international oil routes and supplies by
going
>> to war, so what?  Liberals like to say we should go to war in Zambia, or
>> Zimbabwe or elsewhere in the African continent. If not for precious
metals,
>> oil or resources, why?  If it is not in our national interest, why?  What
>> the hell were we doing in Serbia?  That is a European created problem and
>> they should police it.  We have no national interest there.
>>
>> Philip
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of
>> FCrawford0707 at aol.com
>> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 10:46 AM
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] To DAVE about Virginia and in reply
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 6/30/2006 8:47:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> 3drecon at comcast.net writes:
>>
>> Frankly, I see the Democrats relying on Big Government and  growing it;
>> however, having said that, the Republicans, in recent years have  changed
>> course to
>> appease the liberals (who will not vote for them, no matter  what) and
have
>> their own brand of government growth.  I am a  Libertarian.  The
>> Republicans
>> are the only electable party that come  closest to that philiosophy for
>> now,
>> so
>> I identify with them.  The  interesting thing is the Founding Fathers
would
>> have been considered  liberals!
>>
>>
>>
>> Philip - I am interested in your conclusion that as a Libertarian, you
are
>> somehow comfortable with the Republicans.  I find the incessant drive by
>> the
>> Republicans to limit personal rights and invade our private acts and
>> thoughts
>> to be at odds with my own Libertarian leanings.  The abuse of  power by
the
>> present administration is frightening - a propaganda machine  leading us
to
>> pre-emptive war, welfare for the agri / timber / oil companies,  selling
>> off
>> our
>> resources to pay the unconscionable deficits, not to mention the
>> corruption
>> and incompetence.  I am not a strict Libertarian, in that I feel  there
are
>> roles best filled by government - for example, dredging and  maintaining
>> the
>> ICW.
>> There was a great idea thirty years ago that, if  followed, would perhaps
>> have put our society in a happier and less contentious  frame than we are
>> going
>> thru now - that of the negative income tax, in place of  all the myriad
of
>> government administered support programs that don't really  serve the
>> constituency
>> intended, and which produce a whole lot of waste.   With a negative
income
>> tax, the neediest are supported without the cost and  waste of
bureaucratic
>> infrastructure.  No one makes out better financially  by not working, so
>> the
>> "welfare syndrome" is not present.
>>     Frone Crawford
>>     s/v Sunday Morning
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