[Rhodes22-list] Right-of-Way

Sat Jul 29 12:40:25 EDT 2006

>From the USCG web site:

(b)     The term "power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.

I'd say that it PROBABLY is considered a power-driven vessel. Guess it depends on whether or not an oar or paddle is considered "machinery"...

In practical terms, I'd say that they're give-way to sailboats. Keep in mind, all of the regulations were written with the intent that the easier to maneuver vessel was the one to give way. You can use the paddle to easily change the direction in which you are moving. You can also easily maneuver a kayak in any direction, including straight into the wind. Finally, you can move the kayak whether the wind is blowing or not.

I'd hate to have to argue the case in court though...

Herb Parsons

S/V O'Jure
1976 O'Day 25
Lake Grapevine, N TX

S/V Reve de Papa
1971 Coronado 35
Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast

>>> jbconnolly at comcast.net 7/29/2006 10:16:30 am >>>
I don't recall a specific mention in colregs, except for maybe lighting at
night (flashlight?). The book is on the boat so I am not sure.

I think they are classed as vessels under power (albeit human power) and
thus should give way to sailboats under sail.  They are almost certainly not
restricted by draft.

The operators up here seem to appreciate their vulnerability and for the
most part try to stay out of everyone else's way.  On the other hand, there
are always the clueless out there.  I have not yet seen a problem, but there
is a kayak rental about a quarter mile from my mooring.  We shall see.

Jim Connolly

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org 
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Michael Meltzer
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 8:35 AM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Right-of-Way

Nice story,

Now A question I never been able to answer,

Were do human powered craft figure in the regs? I never see any reference to
them in the tables and I been never able to spot the answer, they always
seem to me to come under most moveable and had to get out of the way of
everyone.

I deal with 20+- today so it would be nice to know :-)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org [mailto:rhodes22-list- 
> bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Jim Connolly
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 8:23 PM
> To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Right-of-Way
> 
> Back in the '80's I served on submarines out of New London, CT.  One 
> day we were heading out and approaching the railroad drawbridge across 
> the Thames River.  I was the officer of the deck.  A lobsterboat was 
> hauling traps dead center in the channel and just a bit downstream of 
> the bridge.
> 
> I gave him a prolonged blast on the whistle.  He gave us the finger (I 
> could
> see it through binoculars, we weren't that close yet).   The next thing he
> got was 5 short blasts.  He threw the trap about fifteen feet and dove 
> for the wheel.
> 
> He was hauling traps.  He was restricted in ability to maneuver, but 
> so were we, and we had nowhere to give way to.  The railroad draw 
> horizontal clearance was not much more than three times as wide as our 
> maximum beam, and looked a lot narrower, especially approaching it 
> with the current behind you.
> 
> As the skipper (not previously a man noted for his excellent sense of
> humor)
> said to the lobsterman on the loud hailer as we passed "HY-80 (steel) 
> beats fiberglass".  This is a corollary to the law of gross tonnage.
> 
> For those of you who may encounter submarines from time to time, note 
> that they are about 300 to 560 feet long, displace 6,000-18,000 tons, 
> are about 90% underwater, draw 3-40 feet draft and have one screw 
> located aft of the rudder, so they maneuver unpredictably (especially 
> going astern) or without significant way on.  They are often mistaken 
> for small craft at night and in poor visibility due to small radar 
> return of what little sticks up out of the water.  They are almost 
> always restricted (by draft or by inherent design characteristics 
> while on the surface) in ability to maneuver.
> 
> Jim Connolly
> s/v Inisheer
> '85 recycled '02
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org 
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 9:45 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Right-of-Way
> 
> Tom, Herb,
> 
> Most people get this wrong.
> 
> Here's the pecking order:
> 
> (Summary of Coast Guard rules courtesy of the state of Tennessee)
> 
> Responsibilities Between Vessels:
> 
> If operating a power driven vessel you must give way to:
> 
> o Any vessel not under command, such as an anchored or disabled vessel.
> o Any vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver, such as a vessel 
> towing, laying cable, or picking up navigation markers, or a vessel 
> constrained by its draft such as a large ship in a channel.
> o A vessel engaged in commercial fishing o A sailing vessel (sail 
> only) unless it is overtaking
> 
> If operating a sailing vessel (sail only), you must give way to:
> o Any vessel not under command
> o Any vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver o A vessel engaged 
> in commercial fishing
> 
> Michael and I sail in waters where we see all kinds of vessels 
> (including
> submarines) all the time.  Every summer we read about a novice sailor 
> getting killed while yelling "I've got the right of way!"
> -- when in fact he doesn't.
> 
> All military vessels have right-of-way over all other vessels.  Next 
> comes the Coast Guard.  Next comes emergency vessels.  Next comes
tugboats.
> 
> Then comes vessels engaged in commercial fishing.
> 
> But way up at the top are vessels not under command, and just below is 
> any vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver.
> 
> As a practical matter try to think of a commercial vessel that is not 
> restricted in its ability to maneuver.  We already know that if you 
> try to turn a cruise ship too fast it can tip over.  A Cigarette boat, 
> traveling at 90 miles an hour, is restricted in its ability to 
> maneuver.  Sailboats must give way -- early!
> 
> Some of these big commercial boats have 40 foot drafts.
> 
> I can't think of a commercial boat that wouldn't have right of way 
> over a sail boat under sail--can you?
> 
> Experienced sailors always follow "The Law of Tonnage": if something 
> bigger than you is bearing down on you -- get out of its way!
> 
> Bill Effros
> 
> PS -- Anchored vessels must be in designated anchorages -- you can't 
> anchor in the middle of a busy waterway and think for one second that 
> you've got the right of way.  And if you're disabled, but the other 
> boat can't maneuver, and can't give way...don't get disabled in front 
> of big boats-- it won't turn out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herb Parsons wrote:
> > I'm curious too. Commercial fishing vessels are stand on over sail
> boats,
> when they're engaged in fishing. ANY boat (commercial or other) 
> limited in their ability to manuever and in a channel is stand on over 
> a sailing boat as well. But I believe that the blanket statement that 
> all commercial vessels have the right-of-way over any sailing vessel is
incorrect.
> >
> > Herb Parsons
> >
> > S/V O'Jure
> > 1976 O'Day 25
> > Lake Grapevine, N TX
> >
> > S/V Reve de Papa
> > 1971 Coronado 35
> > Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
> >
> >
> >>>> Tatflies at cs.com 7/26/2006 10:29:26 pm >>>
> >>>>
> > Bill,
> >
> > Why do commercial vessels have the right-of-way over any sailing 
> > vessel (unless limited in their ability to manuever)?
> >
> > Tom T.
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