[Rhodes22-list] Politics: How's It Going? Badly! (long, civil)

[Robert Skinner]

brad haslett wrote:
> ...
> We disagree that this is not a war.  It is a war that
> has been ongoing for over twenty years and we lost the
> first dozen or so battles.  9/11 was our wake-up call.
>  Nothing in our recent history and experience has
> prepared us for this type of war, so mistakes will be
> made, and planning will prove to be less than
> adequate. 

We have some common turf here.  We agree that this 
situation has few if any parallels in our history.
While we both will probably agree that smoking Bin 
Laden would be a good thing, I do not see it as an
ultimate objective.  We seem to have confused 
economics with good and evil, and I submit that 
the terrorists have been doing a damn fine job of
clothing their thirst for power in religious garb.
I do not see the USA being able to hold much moral
high ground here -- we have not been anywhere near
so successful in showing ourselves as being on God's
right hand, whether we are or not.

> Lincoln is one of our most admired
> Presidents for his perserverance during an unpopular
> war.  Whether Bush is admired 50 years from now is
> hard to tell from our present perspective. 

Agreed.  Nevertheless, perseverance has two edges,
as many leaders have found.  And "history is 
written by the winners."

> However, our current domestic politics is so polarized that it
> is difficult to delineate peoples real opinion on Iraq
> from their political zeal for whatever party.  I hope
> this changes soon because the stakes are so high. 

Also agreed, without reservation in this case.

> We cannot retreat back to own shores and hope for the
> best. 

I think withdraw and regroup might be a better
characterization.  We have a lot of soft underbelly
exposed in our current position.  I strongly suspect
that there are better ways to protect our nation
(and its way of life) than trying to impose a foreign
way of government of Iraq now, no matter whether it 
would benefit them in the long run.  

To put it another way, we in our society tend to value
forgiveness and redemption.  One "aw sh*t" is wiped out 
by some finite number of "attaboys".  One misstep by
an American in Iraq is perceived as inexcusable, 
warranting a death sentence.  We don't strap plastic
around our waists, but some of them do -- largely
due to outside influences, to be sure.

But we are quite alien.  We have lives that are worth 
living on earth, as do most Iraquis.  But we do not live 
in a country that was pasted together by outsiders for 
their own purposes, nor are we under occupation by 
another power whose purposes are quite muddy at best,
and possibly very adverse to our own interests.

> As Evan Byah (who would make a great Democrat
> candidate for President) said in a speech over the
> weekend, the enemy budgeted a million dollars for the
> 9/11 attack.  The cost to us was in the billions.
> They have a decided advantage on the field of battle
> because of the cost differential.  Whether Iraq was
> the best choice for the next battlefield has yet to be
> determined.  But, there will be a next battlefield.

Yes, they have a million-to-one economic advantage _on 
this battlefield_.  But we have not taken the battle to 
them.  They were not in Iraq.  They are as diffuse as 
an idea, and it is on the battlefield of thought that 
we need to dominate.  Heretofore, this has not been our
strong suit.  Wouldn't hurt to divert more assets to 
chasing him down.  Wiretapping inside the US seems wide
of the mark.  A policy that includes torture is not
exactly moral high ground.  We do not win hearts and 
minds that way -- and that is the territory that must
be won.

> Whoever the next President better choose wisely or the
> choice will be made for him/her.  A lot of us
> partisans are fed-up with both parties right now.

Yup!  And I am both a local Democratic party chairman 
and a former Republican.  I am not so much partisan as
someone with inadequate and unreliable information 
attempting to extricate our country from a difficult
(hopefully not impossible) situation.

> I've been following the attempt to start a 'virtual'
> third party at http://www.unity08.com/.  Frankly,
> neither the Democrats or Republicans have been
> behaving or governing well lately.

Common ground there.  Neither end of the political 
liberal-conservative dimension embodies the whole 
truth.  And there is more than one dimension.  We 
live in a multi-dimensional matrix, as finely divided 
as each individual person within the whole populace.  

The middle ground of many, if not most, dimensions of 
opinion has been horribly abused, denegrated, and 
defiled.  Yet all of us have some area(s) of thought 
where we either don't care, are ignorant, or find 
both ends equally repugnant.

The Unity08 initiative sounds a bit idealistic, but 
then, so did the Declaration of Independence.  I'm 
interested, but not sold yet.  George Washington was 
concerned about partisanship as a divisive force, 
destructive to reasoned discourse.  I'm with him.

/Robert Skinner