[Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David

[Todd Zumach]

At the risk of getting flamed, I will add my input to this conversation.

1.  I have a hard copy of the manual and have read it multiple times (it is
good reading).

2.  I am not an engineer, but I am the type of person who would prefer
concrete numbers to concepts like "hand tighten".  I also suffer from
"Gorillaitis", that is, I tend to over tighten, use too much force, or a
bigger hammer at times and have broken a few things in my days.

3.  I have read other sources regarding shroud tension and have found both
"keep them loose" and "keep them tight" opinions.  One point that I thougt
seemed reasonable was that a rig that was "too loose", would allow actually
allow shock loads to occur.  That author suggested that the lee side should
should not go noticably slack.

4.  The previous owner of my R22 showed me how tight he kept the shrouds and
urged me to not over tighten by using a pliers.  He also told me to make
sure to hold on to the shroud above the turnbucke in order to keep the
shroud from twisting.  I do use a small wrench to hold on to the shroud to
keep it from twisting and use my hand to tighten the turnbuckle.

5.  I have read the spec from Roger's post and based on other noted
suggestions I do not tighten quite as tight as he recommended.

6.  How do I know how tight are the shrouds?  I asked received a Loos guage
as a gift (per my request).

7.  I have only used the guage for this spring's initial set up and choose
set up the lower shrouds at 120 pounds and the upper at 150 pounds.  Those
were determined by playing with the tension until the all felt "good" and
then measuring with the guage.

8.  Next week, when I put the boat back in the water, I will use the guage
again and confirm my settings and report back to the group.

Capn Z
Phillips, WI

On 6/24/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
> Oh, please...
>
> This is like a discussion of how hard to slam a car door.  You only have
> to slam it hard enough to close.  The car can take a harder slam, but
> you are not accomplishing anything good for the car by slamming the door
> harder.
>
> We should banish Loos gauges from this list.  They are supposed to be
> calibrated for the type and size of stay they are measuring.  They don't
> measure in pounds--you interpolate index numbers.
>
> Where the hell did 200 pounds come from, anyhow?
>
> Is that 200 pounds when the other 8 shrouds are slack, or 200 pounds
> when the other 8 shrouds also each show 200 pounds?  Or is it 200 pounds
> total, divided by 9 shrouds?
>
> The tension on the back stay which holds up the traveler is supposed to
> be the same as the tension on the lower side stays?
>
> If the mast is not perpendicular to the boat, but all the stays register
> 200 pounds--is the rigging ok?
>
> A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
>
> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > Ed,
> >
> > Without a gauge it is hard to quantify hand tight. Perhaps someone
> > should tighten hand tight and then measure? What if three people
> > tightned hand tight and measured? I bet you would have 3 different
> > measurements. I must admit that mine are tighter than hand
> > tight....not much. Lee side shrouds still go slack. Sloppy or over
> > tight, either way creates proplems.
> >
> > Roger knew how tune an R22 and he used a gauge. Did you see his specs?
> > Anyone with IMF actually use a gauge? Someone should know this? I may
> > have to borrow a friend's gauge and measure .....
> >
> > Wally
> >
> >
> >> From: Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
> >> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David
> >> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
> >>
> >>
> >> David:
> >>      I would like to suppliment Captain Rummy's response to you with
> >> where
> >> you find documentation supporting what he is telling you.  Stan, aka,
> >> General Boats, makes an instruction manual for the Rhodes 22.  With
> >> Rose's
> >> permission, a copy of which is located in the Document Library of
> >> this web
> >> site. See:
> >>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/doclib/Rhodes22-1988-Owners-Raven.pdf
> >>
> >>       Now specifically go to pages 4 and 5, especially about the guy
> who
> >> used pliers to tighten the shrouds.  So after reading the instructions
> >> promulgated by Stan you may begin to understand why most of use just
> >> follow
> >> his instuctions.  Please understand that while Stan's education is
> >> electrical engineering he is a nautical engineer by advocation.  The
> >> point
> >> Rummy made is that the mast is not made to be over tighened.  What
> Rummy
> >> said is supported by the instructional manual for this boat.
> >>       Who ever told you to use 200 pounds of tension told you very
> >> wrong.
> >> That kind of number may be correct for a fifty foot keel stepped racing
> >> sailboat, but not appropriate for a cabin (deck) stepped mast without a
> >> compression post from base to keel.   It sounds like somebody has
> >> created a
> >> problem in over tensioning the stays.  Hopefully the cabin is not
> >> reshaped
> >> permenantly.
> >>        Many Cat boats and other modern designs do not even use stays
> >> to keep
> >> the mast upright.  Read about the latest model Hunter sail boats.
> >>
> >> Ed K
> >> Greenville, SC, USA
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> >> http://www.nabble.com/Problem-shrouds.-t1840793.html#a5025664
> >> Sent from the Rhodes22 forum at Nabble.com.
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>