[Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David

Sun Jun 25 08:25:55 EDT 2006

Wally,

Right, he had lots of experience.  The term you hear over and over as an
apprentice is "proper tool and technique".  You are taught that there is a
specific tool for every nut and bolt.  Use the right tool with the correct
force (something you learn with time) and you can torque to within 5% of
tolerances the first time.  Someone mentioned earlier "plucking" the
shrouds.  That is exactly what the guy who rigged my boat did.  I have no
idea what tune a properly tightened shroud is supposed to sing.  Maybe
someone has an mp3 file.

Brad

On 6/25/06, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Brad,
>
> So are you saying rookie airline mechanics don't need to use torgue
> wrenches? I understand your trainers point but he had some experience.
>
> Wally
>
> >From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for
> David
> >Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:27:36 -0500
> >
> >Another red letter day!  Bill Effros makes perfect sense!
> >
> >Rummy, sometimes I wish you weren't so shy and would just speak your
> mind.
> >
> >This discussion reminds me of my days as an apprentice aircraft mechanic.
> >I
> >asked my boss why we weren't using a torque wrench on whatever we were
> >working on.  He said, "oh yeah, go get one".  I checked his work and most
> >were very, very close to correct.  He said, "go get the other one and
> check
> >again".  They were still very close but also different.  Then he said,
> >"trust me kid, it's hard to beat a man at his own craft".
> >
> >I asked the guy who stepped the mast and rigged my boat (the same guy who
> >delivered it) if I needed to borrow a loos guage.  He rolled his eyes and
> >said, who has one you can trust?
> >
> >Simple is sometimes the best method.
> >
> >Brad
> >
> >
> >On 6/24/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>Oh, please...
> >>
> >>This is like a discussion of how hard to slam a car door.  You only have
> >>to slam it hard enough to close.  The car can take a harder slam, but
> >>you are not accomplishing anything good for the car by slamming the door
> >>harder.
> >>
> >>We should banish Loos gauges from this list.  They are supposed to be
> >>calibrated for the type and size of stay they are measuring.  They don't
> >>measure in pounds--you interpolate index numbers.
> >>
> >>Where the hell did 200 pounds come from, anyhow?
> >>
> >>Is that 200 pounds when the other 8 shrouds are slack, or 200 pounds
> >>when the other 8 shrouds also each show 200 pounds?  Or is it 200 pounds
> >>total, divided by 9 shrouds?
> >>
> >>The tension on the back stay which holds up the traveler is supposed to
> >>be the same as the tension on the lower side stays?
> >>
> >>If the mast is not perpendicular to the boat, but all the stays register
> >>200 pounds--is the rigging ok?
> >>
> >>A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
> >>
> >>Bill Effros
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>TN Rhodey wrote:
> >> > Ed,
> >> >
> >> > Without a gauge it is hard to quantify hand tight. Perhaps someone
> >> > should tighten hand tight and then measure? What if three people
> >> > tightned hand tight and measured? I bet you would have 3 different
> >> > measurements. I must admit that mine are tighter than hand
> >> > tight....not much. Lee side shrouds still go slack. Sloppy or over
> >> > tight, either way creates proplems.
> >> >
> >> > Roger knew how tune an R22 and he used a gauge. Did you see his
> specs?
> >> > Anyone with IMF actually use a gauge? Someone should know this? I may
> >> > have to borrow a friend's gauge and measure .....
> >> >
> >> > Wally
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> From: Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
> >> >> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >> >> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for
> >>David
> >> >> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> David:
> >> >>      I would like to suppliment Captain Rummy's response to you with
> >> >> where
> >> >> you find documentation supporting what he is telling you.  Stan,
> aka,
> >> >> General Boats, makes an instruction manual for the Rhodes 22.  With
> >> >> Rose's
> >> >> permission, a copy of which is located in the Document Library of
> >> >> this web
> >> >> site. See:
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/doclib/Rhodes22-1988-Owners-Raven.pdf
> >> >>
> >> >>       Now specifically go to pages 4 and 5, especially about the guy
> >>who
> >> >> used pliers to tighten the shrouds.  So after reading the
> instructions
> >> >> promulgated by Stan you may begin to understand why most of use just
> >> >> follow
> >> >> his instuctions.  Please understand that while Stan's education is
> >> >> electrical engineering he is a nautical engineer by advocation.  The
> >> >> point
> >> >> Rummy made is that the mast is not made to be over tighened.  What
> >>Rummy
> >> >> said is supported by the instructional manual for this boat.
> >> >>       Who ever told you to use 200 pounds of tension told you very
> >> >> wrong.
> >> >> That kind of number may be correct for a fifty foot keel stepped
> >>racing
> >> >> sailboat, but not appropriate for a cabin (deck) stepped mast
> without
> >>a
> >> >> compression post from base to keel.   It sounds like somebody has
> >> >> created a
> >> >> problem in over tensioning the stays.  Hopefully the cabin is not
> >> >> reshaped
> >> >> permenantly.
> >> >>        Many Cat boats and other modern designs do not even use stays
> >> >> to keep
> >> >> the mast upright.  Read about the latest model Hunter sail boats.
> >> >>
> >> >> Ed K
> >> >> Greenville, SC, USA
> >> >> --
> >> >> View this message in context:
> >> >> http://www.nabble.com/Problem-shrouds.-t1840793.html#a5025664
> >> >> Sent from the Rhodes22 forum at Nabble.com.
> >> >>
> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > __________________________________________________
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> >> >
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