[Rhodes22-list] Politics and discussion between Slim, Brad, et al.

Tootle ekroposki at charter.net
Fri Nov 10 05:27:45 EST 2006


Slim said:

Where I'm going with this is that I think it's past time we should hold some
feet to the fire and demand a fiscal solution.  It bothers me that this
issue doesn't seem to be anywhere on the radar.  I think that's because:
"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover
that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." (the
Rummy post.  Um, the good Rummy, not the bad Rummy.)"

A local lady said that since we are the richest country in the world we
should provide more money for education.  Ask some questions about this type
statement.  Start with who owns the “riches”.   Are the riches owned by the
country or do they simply reside in the country?  Then ask who should decide
how to allocate the “riches”.  

Conservatives accept that reasonable taxes for maintaining the society are
in order.  A reasonable tax for education is acceptable and necessary.  It
has been demonstrated that America’s free basic education has enabled many
to move from the bottom to the top in economic productivity.  

Back to the previous issue of who owns the “riches” and who makes the
decision of how to allocate the taxes on them?

Socialism and the liberal point of view emphasizes that society owns the
right of allocation.  Capitalism and the free market point of view believes
that the owner of the right of title chooses allocation.    

Historically, democrats and their fellow travelers assert their right to
allocate riches or resources.  In the past until Bush, Republicans asserted
that the title holder choose the allocation.

And the discussion and disagreements go on.

Ed K
Greenville, SC, USA
Addendum, “… multiculturists reject the idea of a common language and a
common history that we’ve built over 218 years.  They would not have foreign
born immigrants assimilate and become Americans but rather create ethnic
enclaves protecting their culture and their language.”  John F Budd, Jr.




Slim-2 wrote:
> 
> Herb,
> 
> Thanks for putting it in simple terms that I can understand.  Now, with
> the
> debt at 8.5 trillion, what does our GNP have to be in order for us NOT to
> be
> "really in trouble" and can we sustain that until we're out of debt?  And
> how many years will that take?
> 
> These are the very simple questions that nobody's asking.  I realize the
> macro-economics math is not simple but everybody, Repubs and Dems alike,
> seem to have their collective heads in the sand concerning our debt.  It
> looks to me like we're already "really in trouble."
> 
> Slim
> 
> On 11/9/06 10:47 PM, "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> 
>> In simple terms, comparing debt to gnp is sort of like comparing a
>> persons
>> personal debt to their earning potential.
>> 
>> If Jon Smith has a total debt to 500 million, he sounds like he's badly
>> in
>> debt.
>> If Joe Jones has a total debt of 10,000 he sounds like he's OK.
>> 
>> However, Jon Smith makes 4 billion a year, and Joe Jones gets a $125 in
>> unemployment benefits.
>> 
>> Guess who's really in trouble?
>> 
>> 
>> Herb Parsons
>> 
>> S/V O'Jure
>> 1976 O'Day 25
>> Lake Grapevine, N TX
>> 
>> S/V Reve de Papa
>> 1971 Coronado 35
>> Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
>> 
>>>>> salm at mn.rr.com 11/9/2006 7:12:17 pm >>>
>> Brad,
>> 
>> OK, I'll bite.  Will you and your MBA please explain how the debt is
>> "mild"
>> against the GNP? 
>> 
>> I'm being uncharacteristically sincere here:  I've heard the
>> $8,000,000,000,000.00 figure tossed around lately and I don't understand
>> why
>> more dems aren't screaming bloody murder other than a few comments about
>> saddling our children with this debt.  Please enlighten us on how this
>> ISN'T
>> a problem.
>> 
>> Who was it that said, "There are lies, damn lies and statistics."?
>> 
>> As for capitalism, I measure my assets and liabilities in songs.  I sing
>> about 350 songs per month for my mortgage.  I'll have to sing about
>> 42,000
>> more songs to pay it off.  My Rhodes22 cost 3750 songs.  (That's S3750)
>> Most of them are "Piano Man", "Brown Eyed Girl", "Great Balls of Fire"
>> and
>> "Margaritaville." over and over.   Oh, and "Free Bird."  8-)
>> 
>> Slim
>> P.S. Have you read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" by David Kiyosaki?
>> 
>> On 11/9/06 5:35 PM, "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Slim,
>>> 
>>> You probably 'git' your numbers from the same source as mine - thin air!
>>> Don't make me look this up right now but the National Debt (a fuzzy
>>> number
>>> depending on how it is measured) is well under control compared to GNP.
>>> 
>>> That is small comfort.  There are a lot of hungry Chinese and Indians. 
>>> The
>>> Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese (fellow travelers in China world according
>>> to
>>> Fan) and  a variety of assorted labor sources are worried about the
>>> Vietnamese and others who will work even cheaper.
>>> 
>>> Plumbers make $90 per hour.  I pay $65 per hour for mechanics to work on
>>> my
>>> airplane which is less than the shop rate on Fan's Honda.  It ain't that
>>> tough to make it in this world.  We paid Mexicans $15 per hour on the
>>> coast
>>> until the locals insisted that they be run off.  OK, let's raise the
>>> minimum
>>> wage.  The locals still won't work as long as they have a FEMA trailer
>>> and a
>>> stipend.
>>> 
>>> God help us!  I'm sorry, non-descriptional benevolent supreme being,
>>> subsidize us!
>>> 
>>> Brad
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/9/06, Slim <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Brad,
>>>> 
>>>> I'm referring to the total national debt.  I don't know where I git
>>>> that
>>>> number--you know I'm never that well-informed.  8-)
>>>> 
>>>> Slim
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 11/9/06 5:04 PM, "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Slim,
>>>>> 
>>>>> We've got 30 minutes max until I have to drive Cora to an
>>>>> 'appointment'.
>>>>> One thing I learned from my undergraduate in accounting and an MBA is
>>>>> to
>>>>> distrust numbers when they are thrown out for effect.  What number are
>>>> you
>>>>> talking about?  Trade deficit?  Total national debt?  Big numbers are
>>>>> scary.  Where did you get your number? Our national debt as a
>>>>> percentage
>>>> of
>>>>> GNP is mild.
>>>>> 
>>>>> By all conventional measures, the economy is in great shape.  Now
>>>>> let's
>>>> look
>>>>> at the dark side.  The good paying middle class union jobs have gone
>>>>> overseas, emphasis on the GONE!  The middle class semi-skilled jobs,
>>>>> ie.
>>>>> telephone work, accounting, etc, has gone overseas, GONE!  We still
>>>>> fry
>>>> the
>>>>> best Freedom Fries in the world at minimum wage.  Raise the minimum
>>>>> wage
>>>> and
>>>>> $5000 automatic fryers look attractive.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Slim, it doesn't make a rat's ass which party won the most recent
>>>> election
>>>>> in long term economic trends provided we stick with a capitalistic
>>>> system.
>>>>> We (as a nation) are sucking left rear hind tit in many economic ways.
>>>> I
>>>>> just cashed in my international funds at what I think was the high
>>>>> point
>>>> to
>>>>> buy my new toy.  Maybe the French and Germans are where you should
>>>> invest
>>>>> your money, but, based on Airbus and their host countries lackluster
>>>> economy
>>>>> compared to ours, perhaps not.  If you're a fan of socialism, none of
>>>> this
>>>>> talk about economic numbers matters.  If you want an expert opinion,
>>>> call
>>>>> George Soros.  He doesn't give a fuck about anything but his bottom
>>>> line,
>>>>> but, perhaps could give you much better advice.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Economic news is economic news.  Spin it to suit your needs.  I do!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brad
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 11/9/06, Slim <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 11/9/06 8:04 AM, "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> The economy is in excellent shape by all conventional
>>>>>>> measures.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Um, Brad, am I missing something?  What part of an 8-trillion-dollar
>>>>>> (plus)
>>>>>> debt do you see as "excellent?"  That would be an 8 with 14 zeros!  I
>>>>>> suppose it's excellent if you're China.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>> 
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