[Rhodes22-list] Ro, Ro, Your Boat...

[Bill Effros]

Sorry, Robert,

Did not mean to shoot across your bow.  Too little time, too much 
curiosity.   No one has ever been able to explain to me how those things 
work, or the physics behind them and whether it was in any way 
applicable to the R22.

Curved hull explains a lot.

Bill Effros

Robert Skinner wrote:
> Bill, Todd, et al:
>
> I sit mostly corrected.  
>
> As I dug into more references after Bill's shot across my 
> bows, I found a preponderance of cases siting sweeps rather 
> than poles, the encyclopedia being the most major.
>
> Britannica describes a gondola as a "tapered, 32-foot- 
> (10-metre-) long flat-bottomed boat historically associated 
> with the canals and lagoon of Venice, carrying from two to 
> six passengers. It is propelled from the starboard quarter 
> by a single sweep (oar) manipulated by a gondolier standing 
> on the stern cover, and it has an asymmetrical shape, being 
> 9 inches (23 cm) wider on the port side..."
>
> Todd's picture is also compelling evidence.
>
> However, some other references, among those I cited, refer 
> to poles.
>
> /Robert
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Todd Tavares wrote:
>   
>> Bill,
>>
>> Gondolas have curved hulls.  Their natural track is a curve.  The "oar"
>> fights this natural turning tendency and the result is a sort of straight
>> track, but it is a mild zig-zag.  See pic
>>
>> Todd T.
>>
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>   From: "Bill Effros"
>>   To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
>>   Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Ro, Ro, Your Boat...
>>   Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:01:34 -0400
>>
>>   No, that's not right.
>>
>>   They sometimes use their oars as poles, but many of the canals are
>>   far too deep for that, and the oars are specialized.
>>
>>   There is a fulcrum at the rear that the oarsman puts his oar into.
>>   The motion of the oar is to and fro, similar to what you described
>>   in the Japanese boat. The oarsman can put his full body into the
>>   stroke from the pad on which he stands at the stern.
>>
>>   It looks like an inverted version of the Japanese system, and it
>>   seems that the physics of the propulsion is similar.
>>
>>   But the mass of the boat is much less than the mass of our boats.
>>
>>   I have sculled with the rudder o n my R22 on windless days, and
>>   traveled miles. I have tried pulling my boat with my dinghy--that
>>   doesn't work if there is any current at all. In fact, my sculling
>>   may have been floating in the current for all I really know. I see
>>   people paddling their boats from the bow, but this has never worked
>>   for me. I have an electric motor, but I find I never turn to it in
>>   an emergency. I have a reliable outboard which almost always comes
>>   through. My sails are my back up. Then I break out the anchors.
>>
>>   Just wondering if you knew the physics of gondolas. They move
>>   beautifully, not zig zagging through the water with a single oar.
>>
>>   Bill Effros
>>
>>   Robert Skinner wrote:
>>   > Bill Effros wrote:
>>   >
>>   >> Robert,
>>   >> How do gondolas work?
>>   >>
>>   >
>>   > Generally, they use poles, as the canals are shallow.
>>   >
>>   > http://www.bergercollection.org/artwork_detail.php?i=27
>>   > http://www.coasterville.com/Italia/ItalyPage3.htm
>>   >
>>   >
>>   >> Does the Japanese boat weigh a ton and half?
>>   >>
>>   >
>>   > Often more. The ro is used both alone at the stern, or
>>   > in some cases, multiple ros were used along the sides of
>>   > boats. The article that I cited showed a picture of one.
>>   >
>>   >
>>   >>> Reference:
>>   >>>
>>   >>> Wooden Boat Volume 192, Setember/October 2006, page 54
>>   >>>
>>   >>> "A Different Way to Ro -- Complex Japanese traditional
>>   >>> oar makes sculling simple"
>>   >>> If you want a copy of the article, contact:
>>   >>> Woodenboat
>>   >>> 41 Woodenboat Lane
>>   >>> P.O. Box 78
>>   >>> Brooklin, ME 04616-0078
>>   >>> 207-359-4651
>>   >>>
>>   >
>>   >
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>>
>> --
>> ___________________________________________________
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>>
>>   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Name: gondola-1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 100955 bytes Desc: not available
>> Url: http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200609/07/gondola-1.jpg
>>
>>   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     
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