[Rhodes22-list] Rummy, was Retracting IMF

Slim stevenalm at comcast.net
Wed Feb 21 00:52:26 EST 2007 

Rummy,

I still have that scrap piece of UMPWUMP you gave me for this purpose.
Where can I get another piece for the other cleat?  How do I cut it?  I
don't have a band saw.

Slim

On 2/21/07 12:45 AM, "Slim" <stevenalm at comcast.net> wrote:

> Mary Lou,
> 
> Now I'm completely confused.  I don't understand why the outhaul would need
> to go through the boom.
> 
> Rummy, can you post a picture of yours?  IIRC you have cam cleats on both
> outhaul and reefing lines.
> 
> Slim
> 
> On 2/20/07 5:13 PM, "Mary Lou Troy" <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> wrote:
> 
>> Slim.
>> Nope I meant the outhaul. Our reefing line is still on a horn cleat
>> and frankly we don't have much trouble with that - perhaps because we
>> are always double-handed. The out haul was more of a problem for us.
>> The kit Stan sells includes the piece of UMPWUMP (I like that) for
>> mounting the cleat. IIRC the kit include the cam cleat, the piece cut
>> to fit the boom & the through boom fitting. We had to cut the hole in
>> the boom and attach the UMPWUMP fitting with self tapping screws (I
>> think Stan provided those too.)
>> 
>> Hope this helps.
>> 
>> Mary Lou
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> At 04:41 PM 2/20/2007, you wrote:
>>> Mary Lou,
>>> 
>>> Thanks, but don't you mean the reefing line?  The outhaul (blue line) looks
>>> to be on top of your boom--same as mine.  Not that the outhaul couldn't have
>>> a cam cleat too.  IIRC Rummy has both.
>>> 
>>> I didn't know Stan had a retrofit kit.  Rummy had to specially cut a piece
>>> of  UMPWUMP (whatever it is)  to accommodate the curve of the boom to the
>>> flat seat of the cleat.  What exactly did Stan send you?  Do you have any
>>> more pictures?
>>> 
>>> Slim
>>> 
>>> On 2/20/07 7:15 AM, "Mary Lou Troy" <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Slim,
>>>> A couple of years ago we bought Stan's retrofit kit for the through
>>>> the boom/camcleat fittings for the outhaul. We like it a lot even
>>>> though we still don't know if we installed it backwards. Plusses &
>>>> minuses either way I think. In any event it makes adjusting the
>>>> outhaul much quicker. You can just barely see it in this pic - you
>>>> might need to squint. The outhaul goes through the boom (plastic
>>>> fitting to protect the line) and cleats under the boom.
>>>> 
>>>> Mary Lou
>>>> 
>>>> At 01:50 AM 2/20/2007, you wrote:
>>>>> Thanks, Bill, I'll put all this into practice and try to improve my
>>>>> technique.  Also, I'd like to modify my boom and install cam
>>> cleats instead
>>>>> of horn cleats (like Rummy has) which makes everything faster.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Slim
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/19/07 5:39 PM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Slim,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> OK, now we're on the same page.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Like you, the only time it's harder than easy for me is when the wind
>>>>>> has picked up relative to the amount of main sail I have out, forcing me
>>>>>> to let out the main to a point where the aft boom cleat can't be reached
>>>>>> while standing on floor of the cockpit.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Part of your solution has been to cleat the lines on the mid boom cleat,
>>>>>> however that forces you to leave the tiller.  I tried that approach, but
>>>>>> have subsequently moved the lines back to the aft boom cleat.  I found
>>>>>> it was dangerous to wrestle with the boom when it had too much sail on
>>>>>> it, I wasn't holding onto the tiller, and I was leaning toward the
>>>>>> leeward side of the boat.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If the lines are cleated aft, you are forced to bring the sail in over
>>>>>> the cockpit (which, just incidentally, makes the sail furl on the tube
>>>>>> more easily and more cleanly.)  The only ways you can bring the sail
>>>>>> over the cockpit, if it is not already there, is by sailing higher into
>>>>>> the wind, while coming about, or in a hove-to situation.  In that order.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If the boom is over the water and you want to reduce the main sail,
>>>>>> first retract the genny so that it is around 100%.  No problem
>>>>>> there--I'm sure you know how to do that without snarling the
>>>>>> furler--(hint to newbies--keep tension on both lines.)  The main sail is
>>>>>> 1/2 the size of the 175 genny, so this will significantly depower the
>>>>>> boat, and may allow you to bring in the main over the cockpit depending
>>>>>> on how far your mainsail must be adjusted.  If so, release the lines
>>>>>> from the aft cleat and adjust at reduced speed on the same course.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you still can't pull in your main, steer higher into the wind until
>>>>>> you can, and then fall off again after making the adjustment in
>>>>>> relatively calm air.  If you steer too high, and wish to come about, you
>>>>>> can catch the boom and make your adjustment while the boom remains on
>>>>>> the favored side, usually Starboard, before releasing the genny sheet
>>>>>> and completing the tack.   If you can't do this fast enough, or don't
>>>>>> want to come about, don't release the genny sheet, which will
>>>>>> automatically leave you hove-to.  Using the tiller you can get the boom
>>>>>> anywhere you want it in calm air over the cockpit.  You will have as
>>>>>> much time as you need to adjust the sail, tiller between legs, standing
>>>>>> in the center of the cockpit, aft, approximately over the table socket.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can sail out of being hove-to on either a port or starboard tack.
>>>>>> Steer in the direction you wish to go.  Then release the genny, or not,
>>>>>> depending on which tack you want to be on.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Slim wrote:
>>>>>>> Just Plain Bill, et al,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Right--lengthening the sail is never a problem and I, too try to
>>>>> put up less
>>>>>>> sail than I need at first and add more later if I want.  But sometimes I
>>>>>>> over estimate how much to use and other times the wind picks
>>> up after I'm
>>>>>>> out there, so shortening the main in the heat of battle is
>>>>> something I want
>>>>>>> to get better at.  It's especially tricky if I'm
>>>>> single-handing.  And, like
>>>>>>> you have said, even with others onboard I'm still
>>> single-handing, although
>>>>>>> someone to take the helm and hold our course is a big help and
>>>>> not too hard
>>>>>>> even for a novice.  I can always heave to in order to do
>>> anything but I'd
>>>>>>> like to get better at reefing quickly while still under
>>>>> way.  Thanks for the
>>>>>>> tip on moving the boom car before I haul in the reefing line.  I think
>>>>>>> that'll help.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/18/07 10:46 AM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Slim,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I've read some of the replies.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> First, let's note you are only speaking of shortening the sail.  There
>>>>>>>> is no problem lengthening it.  Just prior to tacking, you
>>> simply release
>>>>>>>> the line that prevents more sail from going out, to add the amount of
>>>>>>>> sail you wish to add.  This will cause a huge belly in the sail.  Using
>>>>>>>> the main sheet, cleat the sail so that it is above the cockpit on the
>>>>>>>> starboard side of the boat (on most boats depending on the rotation of
>>>>>>>> the IMF inside the mast).  Pause in your tack long enough to secure the
>>>>>>>> longer sail in it's new position on the boom, adjusting for
>>> the level of
>>>>>>>> sail tightness.  Finish your tack, or not, depending on where you want
>>>>>>>> to go.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> When shortening the sail you must release the line that holds the sail
>>>>>>>> out, first.  Move the car on the boom to where you want the sail to be
>>>>>>>> attached to the boom.  Again, this will cause the sail to belly out.
>>>>>>>> Then pull the sail retrieval line to get the proper sail shape.
>>>>>>>> Continue the tack, or not.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If it's really blowing you may have to heave to in order to keep the
>>>>>>>> sail under control.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I always start with less sail than I think I will need and
>>> then lengthen
>>>>>>>> it.  I always heave to when retracting sail fully at the end of the day
>>>>>>>> because if you learn to heave to, well, you can make the boat
>>> point into
>>>>>>>> the wind at any direction that makes retracting the sail work best on
>>>>>>>> your boat with your sails.  Experience.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Slim wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> My, my, my... Aren't we a chatty bunch today?  Ninety-some emails!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Art brought up an important point about operating the IMF on a
>>>>> port tack.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> do this too but only slightly off the wind for best
>>> results.  I let the
>>>>>>>>> main
>>>>>>>>> sheet go so the sail is luffing and then it's a cinch to roll it up.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Here's where I could use some help:  If the wind picks up and
>>>>> I decide to
>>>>>>>>> shorten sail, I usually discover that I'm overpowered when on a close
>>>>>>>>> reach.
>>>>>>>>> That's when you get heeled over too much.  That's when the
>>>>> wind has picked
>>>>>>>>> up and there's a lot of force on the sail.  I've found it to be quite
>>>>>>>>> difficult to reef in the mail on this point of sail even if
>>> it is a port
>>>>>>>>> tack and absolutely impossible on a starboard tack.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> So what maneuvers or what point of sail would be best to make
>>>>> this easier?
>>>>>>>>> Must I luff up?  I don't like doing that because it's so chaotic and
>>>>>>>>> sometimes I get blown over to the other tack anyway and the
>>> problem gets
>>>>>>>>> worse.  But if there's any wind in the sail at all then it's
>>>>> much harder to
>>>>>>>>> flatten out the sail because the lines are so stressed.  At least I've
>>>>>>>>> finally learned to cleat off my control lines on the cleats
>>>>> nearer the mast
>>>>>>>>> and not the ones at the end of the boom where I can't always
>>>>> reach them.  I
>>>>>>>>> think I've answered my own question.  You gotta luff
>>> up.  But has anyone
>>>>>>>>> discovered a better procedure?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Reefing in the jib under these conditions is easier.  I
>>>>> usually wait until
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> tack and then keep the jib sheet on the now-windward side
>>> sort of like a
>>>>>>>>> heave to, backwinding the main.  Then I can ease the sheet out
>>>>> and take the
>>>>>>>>> reefing line while the jib is still full of air.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>> 
>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 2/14/2007 4:17 PM
>>>> 
>>>> Name: fender.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 113895 bytes Desc: not available
>>>> Url:
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200702/20/fender.jpg
>>>> 
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>>> 
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> 
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