[Rhodes22-list] Flat Tax Semi-Rant

[Bill Effros]

Brad,

Most of the former Eastern bloc countries have not implemented single 
rate flat taxes--and most of those who have, have implemented flat taxes 
higher than 17%.  Most also have national VAT (very complicated 
progressive sales taxes) in addition to income taxes.  Is this what you 
have in mind--a scheme to raise taxes for individuals well over the 
amounts we currently pay?

Bill Effros



Brad Haslett wrote:
> Bill,
>
> Most of the former Eastern bloc countries, the former Soviet states, and
> Russia, have implemented a flat tax.  They've had their fill of social
> engineering. China is next.  We need to scrap our current tax system and
> start from scratch.  Unless you miss the old communist community, 
> there's no
> reason not to begin this whole process over again - with a clean sheet of
> paper.
>
> Brad
>
>
> On 1/16/07, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>
>> David,
>>
>> According to Brad's definition of the "flat tax" there's nothing in that
>> proposal that prevents government at any level from enacting "social
>> engineering" taxes -- or any other additional taxes.
>>
>> Do you have a different definition for the "flat tax"?
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>
>> David A. Culp wrote:
>> > The flat tax is a great idea that will never see the light of day.
>> >
>> > The reason is simple... power.  Both political parties and most other
>> politicians will never give up the power that our present taxation 
>> system
>> gives them.
>> >
>> > Anybody ever hear the term "social engineering" before?  As an 
>> example,
>> if the government really wants you to quit smoking, they impose taxes to
>> make it so financially unattractive that you quit, same for rum
>> drinkers.  In fact, it's best if they threaten to do so from time to 
>> time so
>> that the rich tobacco and distiller's lobbies will go nuts and shower 
>> them
>> with money and trips.  That's power.
>> >
>> > Just recently in Texas, we added $1.00 to the tobacco tax on January
>> 1st.  The tobacco lobby worked very hard behind the scenes 
>> (read-spread a
>> lot of $$ around) but came up short because our legislators had made too
>> many promises to taxpayers over the past years to lower property 
>> taxes.  My
>> brother who has smoked for years and we had been trying to get him to
>> quit... finally did because he can no longer afford it.  So, our state
>> legislators got my brother to quit smoking, collected lobby money 
>> from big
>> tobacco trying to buy their votes and now will have even bigger tax 
>> revenues
>> to waste in the next session.  A win, win, win for government by 
>> tinkering
>> with the tax system.  To top it off, they will get even more property 
>> taxes
>> long term because the rate reduction is a mere pittance and 
>> valuations have
>> been going up dramatically with no legal cap.  Anyway, at least my 
>> brother
>> quit smoking.
>> >
>> > Another example, if the US government wants or needs us all to go
>> "green", they give us income tax incentives to do so.  Just think if the
>> government wanted a wind generator in every well-to-do yard in 
>> America; they
>> could do it in short order with the right tax incentives and we would 
>> all
>> get into the wind energy business and sell those KW's back to the 
>> electric
>> companies.  You can apply this model to just about any subject you 
>> can think
>> of except sailboats.  I don't think the government will ever give me 
>> a tax
>> credit for owning a sailboat, but they should because I'm saving 
>> fossil fuel
>> and not polluting the air as much!  Unfortunately, the sailboat lobby in
>> this country just doesn't have enough wealth to push this through.  
>> But it
>> could be done with a large excise tax on fuel at boat docks, a huge 
>> luxury
>> tax on power boats and huge tax breaks for sailboats.  I can just see it
>> now, a chicken in every pot and a sailboat in every driveway or farmer's
>> pond in America.
>> >
>> > And no matter what they say, no career politician will ever truly
>> support a flat tax.  Steve Forbes is not a career politician with an 
>> agenda
>> and already has plenty of money; so he can afford to support a flat
>> tax.  Remember, democrats want to social engineer the whole of 
>> society by
>> redistributing wealth-can't do that as quickly or easily under a 
>> flat-tax
>> system.  Republicans would like to social engineer our morality but 
>> that's
>> nearly impossible; so they are content to get their life-blood from
>> businesses and lobbies whom they protect with tax breaks ala Exxon 
>> Mobil or
>> threaten to put out of business, like tobacco for instance.  Either 
>> way, the
>> money just rolls in and as we know, always follow the money.
>> >
>> > David Culp
>> > __________________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>>
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