[Rhodes22-list] speaking of solar panels

Bill Effros bill at effros.com
Sun Jan 28 12:39:38 EST 2007


L.

I am not making those assumptions, you are  making those inferences.

I have owned an R-22 for 10 years.  Every day I have been on board--well 
over 500--I have noted the electrical consumption.  I have hooked up 
single batteries and dual batteries.  I have used flooded, gel, and 
AGM.  I have used motors with and without alternators.  I have used 
solar panels, and I have covered them.  I know what I am talking about 
from experience.

You have not yet used your boat.  You are using tables and graphs that 
are wrong for the boats for which they are written--and are even more 
wrong for R-22s with Solar Panels.

I have purchased additional Folding Solar Panels which I now use to 
recharge all the appliance batteries on board.  I recharge all radios, 
flashlights, cd players, etc -- including my VHF radio using solar 
power.  I run a laptop off my batteries.  I run my cell phone off the 
house batteries.

My boat has never needed to be recharged from house current.  It is on a 
mooring all summer and in a boatyard all winter.  I never remove the 
batteries from the boat even though I live near NYC.  I could not do 
that without the solar charger, since the motor does not run all 
winter.  My boat batteries have never even come close to being fully 
discharged.

I accidentally shorted one of my batteries one year.  It did not short 
out the other, even though the 2 batteries were connected in parallel.  
When I realized what had happened, I disconnected the bad battery and 
just used a single battery for the rest of the summer.  I never got 
close to discharging the one, not as good as it used to be, battery.

I am in the process of changing over all of my lights to LEDs.  I 
suspect that I could leave the LEDs on 24/7 and that my batteries would 
never run down with the solar cells on them.  But I haven't tested that 
theory yet.

Bill Effros

elle wrote:
> Bill, 
>
> You are making two assumptions:
> . that the R-22's have LED's rather than the installed
> incandescent lights; and 
> 2) that the engine battery is 2a) the only battery,
> and 2b) that it is b=connected to the house lights.
>
> NOT!
>
> Each may be very different from what i described. I
> based my comments on my own configuration.
>
> Your mileage may vary.
>
> elle
>
>
>
> --- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Hadz,
>>
>> Power consumption meters will do all the
>> calculations for you.  While 
>> they are expensive, they answer a lot of questions,
>> and bring peace of 
>> mind.  They will ultimately save you a lot of money.
>>
>> Solar panels actually do bring a lot to the party. 
>> The consumption 
>> figures L. and Art are using--which you will see
>> widely used 
>> elsewhere--are incorrect in real life.
>>
>> The starter motors on large boats draw far more
>> electricity out of 
>> batteries than an equivalent number of LEDs left
>> burning for the same 
>> calculated number of Amp-Hours.
>>
>> On our boats, motors with starters will put more
>> electricity back into 
>> the battery than they consume.  Solar cells are all
>> that are required to 
>> put electricity back into the batteries for lights,
>> stereos,  and other 
>> incidental uses.  When you are cruising you will
>> inevitably wind up 
>> using your motor a lot.  This will provide plenty of
>> electricity for 
>> auto-pilots and lights.  Should the battery fail,
>> all you need to do is 
>> pull the cord on our little motors to start
>> them--you can't do that with 
>> big boats which is why they factor in so much for
>> idiots--the running 
>> motor will provide the electricity you need for
>> lights/autopilot/and 
>> bringing the batteries back up to fully charged
>> levels.
>>
>> One battery is all you really need on our boats
>> almost all of the time.  
>> 2 batteries are over-kill.  Top them off with solar
>> panels most of the 
>> time.  Get an electric starting motor.  Your
>> batteries should never run 
>> down if they are constantly topped off by solar
>> panels.  Properly 
>> maintained batteries that are never fully discharged
>> will last for more 
>> than 6 years.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> Joseph Hadzima wrote:
>>     
>>> Thanks elle & Art!
>>>
>>> I had assumed the pannel utilitiy was related both
>>>       
>> to
>>     
>>> consumpson, and latitude; and since you're also
>>>       
>> just above
>>     
>>> the 37th latitude, I appreciate your calculations.
>>>       
>>  
>>     
>>>
>>> --- "Arthur H. Czerwonky"
>>>       
>> <czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>     
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> Elle,
>>>>
>>>> Excellent perspective on the panels.  They don't
>>>>         
>> bring
>>     
>>>> much to the party.  I bought one of the LED
>>>>         
>> utility
>>     
>>>> lights from Boaters World at the Annapolis - not
>>>>         
>> bad at
>>     
>>>> all, and low power consumption.  I bought LED
>>>>         
>> Xmas lights
>>     
>>>> before the holidays, for next year's boat parade
>>>>         
>> in
>>     
>>>> Savannah possibly.  Five strings powered thru a
>>>>         
>> 70 watt
>>     
>>>> inverter (the lights were a/c because the DC were
>>>>         
>> sold
>>     
>>>> out) were no problem at all, plenty for 80' of
>>>>         
>> big LED
>>     
>>>> bulbs.  The mfg will not comment on amp draw, but
>>>>         
>> it must
>>     
>>>> be minescule.
>>>>
>>>> I really think the stability questions about the
>>>>         
>> Rhodes
>>     
>>>> have been  overdone, therefore of concern to you,
>>>>         
>> Hadz,
>>     
>>>> and others.  Each of us skipper has our own
>>>>         
>> comfort
>>     
>>>> boundaries, and this remarkable craft has the
>>>>         
>> ability to
>>     
>>>> adjust accordingly.  If you find the boat
>>>>         
>> sensitive to
>>     
>>>> particular winds, it is so simple to trim either
>>>>         
>> main or
>>     
>>>> genny.  Bill likes to stay level on the water in
>>>>         
>> the LI
>>     
>>>> area, even with the ability to steer with weight
>>>> distribution.  Match that...
>>>>
>>>> I really don't think there is a boat to compare
>>>>         
>> with
>>     
>>>> our's in any catagory except maybe competitive
>>>>         
>> racing
>>     
>>>> with IMF.  
>>>>
>>>> I can't wait to read your first postings after
>>>>         
>> you
>>     
>>>> receive yours.  We will hear the Oh's! and Ah's
>>>>         
>> in
>>     
>>>> Atlanta, at Hartwell, and at Edenton without
>>>>         
>> fail!  I can
>>     
>>>> bet you're ready to get underway.  If you are a
>>>>         
>> little
>>     
>>>> short to see the bow, nary a problem because you
>>>>         
>> will
>>     
>>>> just levitate.
>>>>
>>>> Many cheers,
>>>> Art
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> From: elle <watermusic38 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> Sent: Jan 27, 2007 12:41 PM
>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>>           
>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>     
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] speaking of solar
>>>>>           
>> panels
>>     
>>>>> Hadz,
>>>>>   
>>>>>  Whether the solar panels can keep the batteries
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> charged is a function of the no. of  amp hours
>>>>         
>> used by
>>     
>>>> the goodies below.
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>>   
>>>>>  I don't have my estimated numbers with me (I'm
>>>>>           
>> at the
>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> marina working...!) but, for example, if you have
>>>>         
>> 5
>>     
>>>> interior lights below and if each interior light 
>>>>         
>> pulls
>>     
>>>> 1.5 amps/hr , you are using 7.5 amps per hour
>>>>         
>> using all
>>     
>>>> lights. Or you could use 1 light for 7.5 hours.
>>>>         
>> The solar
>>     
>>>> panels may provide approx. 1-2 amp hrs/day each
>>>>         
>> in this
>>     
>>>> latitude (maybe a bit more when the days are
>>>>         
>> longer &
>>     
>>>> fewer when the days become shorter)...so
>>>>         
>> estimating
>>     
>>>> usage, and the knowing the % you can draw your
>>>>         
>> batteries
>>     
>>>> down, I'd say don't count on the solar panels
>>>>         
>> doing more
>>     
>>>> than to top 'em off.
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>>   
>>>>>  When I did some estimates the other day, I
>>>>>           
>> figured I
>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> could stay out 2-3 days (if sunny), bieng
>>>>         
>> conservative in
>>     
>>>> use, and have to go in to recharge from shore
>>>>         
>> power on
>>     
>>>> the 3rd day...more or less.
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>>   
>>>>>  elle
>>>>>   
>>>>>  
>>>>> Joseph Hadzima <josef508 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>> I was under the impression that solar panels
>>>>>           
>> worked best
>>     
>>>>> when they are set 90 degrees to the Sun. With
>>>>>           
>> the panels
>>     
>>>>> statically mounted on the Rhodes, are they
>>>>>           
>> sufficient at
>>     
>>>>> keeping the batteries charged during a typical
>>>>>           
>> weekend
>>     
>>>>> cruise, or are they more for: charging when you
>>>>>           
>> leave
>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> your
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> boat tied at a mooring / slip during the week
>>>>>           
>> and sail
>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> on
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> the weekend?
>>>>>
>>>>> I assume the latitude where you sail may affect
>>>>>           
>> the
>>     
>>>>> efficiency.
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>> HADZ (a.k.a. joe)
>>>
>>> "That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a
>>>       
>> keel and hull and a deck and sails. That's what a
>> ship needs. But what a ship is... is freedom." 
>>     
>>> -- Captain Jack Sparrow
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>>       
>> www.rhodes22.org/list
>>     
>>>   
>>>       
>> __________________________________________________
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>> www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>  
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