[Rhodes22-list] Racers vs Cruisers

Fri Mar 9 11:20:53 EST 2007

Wally,

I used to do the same thing on my Sunfish when I was not a kid.  When 
the big boats beat me by sailing directly into the wind I couldn't catch 
up to prove to my wife that they had turned their motors on.

Bill Effros

TN Rhodey wrote:
> jw - I agree with you....but I know others don't. When I was a kid 
> sailing a Sunfish in Mission Bay I loved to sail past big expensive 
> sail boats. Some boats change tack to avoid a duel. For me I like to 
> see how my boat compares and if I am getting blown away by a boat that 
> is supposed to be slower I try to figure out what they are doing 
> differently....Wally
>
>
>> From: Jim White <lemenagerie22 at yahoo.com>
>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Racers vs Cruisers
>> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 14:15:24 -0800 (PST)
>>
>> huh.
>>   I must live in the land of "canvas testosterone".....
>>   Even the cruisers are always competing...whether they think they 
>> are or not.....
>>   8-)
>>   Cheers
>>   jw
>>
>> Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>   No, Jim,
>>
>> That's what racers call more than one sailboat in the same area.
>>
>> Cruisers call it annoying.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> Jim White wrote:
>> > Of course.....
>> > You know what they call more than one sailboat in the same area?
>> > ......A race!
>> > ;-)
>> > jw
>> >
>> > Bill Effros wrote:
>> > Lee,
>> >
>> > I think Hank has hit the nail on the head.
>> >
>> > What the racers say is true--if you are aiming for a specific 
>> point, and
>> > you are sailing a specific course that is designed to include upwind,
>> > downwind, and reaching legs over a short period of time, constantly
>> > adjusting the centerboard is critical.
>> >
>> > I think it's important to know how to do this, and to learn from it 
>> when
>> > you are cruising. But, if all you are doing is cruising, once you know
>> > you can get back to any location on sail power alone, you don't 
>> have to
>> > sail in uncomfortable directions--it's a lot less fun. Also, if your
>> > boat is located in places where there is somewhere to go, you will
>> > usually choose to sail in a reaching direction at the beginning of 
>> your
>> > outing, and sail back on a reach if the wind has not shifted.
>> >
>> > Cruisers learn to raise and lower their motors more than their 
>> centerboards.
>> >
>> > Bill Effros
>> >
>> > Hank wrote:
>> >
>> >> Lee,
>> >>
>> >> You may be going faster with the centerboard up, but you will not be
>> >> making
>> >> better time toward your target due to sideways drift. I big function
>> >> of the
>> >> centerboard is to prevent the boat from drifting sideways when 
>> reaching.
>> >> The only time a centerboard is not really needed is when sailing down
>> >> wind.
>> >> Of course, it doesn't really matter if you are not trying to get to a
>> >> specific destination such as when racing. If you don't care about the
>> >> drift, then leave it up.
>> >>
>> >> Hank
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 3/8/07, KUHN, LELAND wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Bud,
>> >>>
>> >>> I've only sailed the Rhodes for a year, so I hope I'm not giving 
>> you bad
>> >>> advice.
>> >>>
>> >>> If I want to point into the wind as much as possible, I'll put the
>> >>> centerboard all the way down. I'll also use the traveler and inside
>> >>> leads to flatten the sails. I've found that it's rare that I need 
>> that
>> >>> extra five degrees into the wind to get to where I want to go.
>> >>>
>> >>> The centerboard can be used as a depth finder, but even with the 
>> soft
>> >>> mud bottom of the Chesapeake, you never know what you're going to 
>> hit.
>> >>> At the very least it will knock off your bottom paint.
>> >>>
>> >>> The centerboard acts as a pivot point, allowing you to make sharper
>> >>> turns. Don't really need it for tacking but could come in handy
>> >>> motoring around the marina. The boat turns sharp enough for me 
>> without
>> >>> the board down.
>> >>>
>> >>> Depending on your point-of-sail, wind, waves, and current; the
>> >>> centerboard will help balance the boat and take pressure off the 
>> tiller.
>> >>> I notice this really helps if I have too much sail out. I usually
>> >>> adjust the sails to balance the boat.
>> >>>
>> >>> As a newbie, I constantly check my speed to see what works best 
>> in all
>> >>> conditions. I have put the board up and down in every condition, 
>> and I
>> >>> am convinced that the drag from the centerboard will always slow you
>> >>> down. In most cases, I believe the centerboard's ability to keep you
>> >>> sailing in a straight line doesn't make up for the decrease in 
>> speed. I
>> >>> might be wrong on that last statement.
>> >>>
>> >>> In my limited experience, the centerboard is a tool that you 
>> rarely need
>> >>> and will slow you down. I guess what surprised me was that most 
>> boats
>> >>> sail fastest on a close reach, due to the opposing pressures from 
>> the
>> >>> sails and keel (squeezing a watermelon seed analogy). On a close 
>> reach
>> >>> with a Rhodes, you will still go faster with the centerboard up.
>> >>>
>> >>> If it sounds like I know what I'm talking about, reread the first
>> >>> sentence. :)
>> >>>
>> >>> Lee
>> >>> 1986 Rhodes22 At Ease
>> >>> Crab Alley (Kent Island, MD)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Peter Thorn [mailto:pthorn at nc.rr.com]
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 6:18 AM
>> >>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] CenterBoard Angle
>> >>>
>> >>> Bud,
>> >>>
>> >>> I'll add my 2 cents, in short: upwind all down, downwind all up.
>> >>>
>> >>> The Rhodes has a very light, balanced helm. With a large (175) 
>> headsail
>> >>> and
>> >>> smaller (not-newer vertical battened) main there can be a 
>> tendancy to
>> >>> leeward helm in light air. As the boat heels when the breeze 
>> picks up
>> >>> this
>> >>> is mitigated. So with the sailplan center of effort (CE) forward 
>> (the
>> >>> rig
>> >>> described above) the underwater fin's center of lateral resistance
>> >>> (CLR),
>> >>> which can be adjusted by the centerboard, also needs to be as 
>> forward as
>> >>> possible.
>> >>>
>> >>> Another of the many advantages to having a centerboard is that 
>> you can
>> >>> change the CLR while underway by adjusting the board. In heavier 
>> air,
>> >>> when
>> >>> you would expose less area on the headsail going to windward, you 
>> can
>> >>> balance by raising the centerboard just a little.
>> >>>
>> >>> PT
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Mary Lou Troy"
>> >>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:42 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] CenterBoard Angle
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Bud,
>> >>>> I think it's just about vertical. Unless you are sailing in a very
>> >>>> weedy area, I don't think having the pennant exposed is a problem.
>> >>>> It's just as likely to get fouled by growth in the slot. Our's 
>> seems
>> >>>> to stay cleaner the more we use it. We always pull the board up at
>> >>>> anchor or when we leave the boat in the slip but sailing upwind 
>> it is
>> >>>> always down as far as it will go. As Wally said, as we move off the
>> >>>> wind we start pulling the board up.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Mary Lou
>> >>>> 1991 R22 Fretless
>> >>>> Rock Hall, MD
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> At 08:39 PM 3/7/2007, you wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks to all who responded! Mary Lou - when you say all the way
>> >>>>> down, you mean the CB is nearly vertical?
>> >>>>> Do you run into any problems with the pennant line or sheaves
>> >>>>> exposed in that running configuration?
>> >>>>> I had thought the sheaves might get "gunked up" if they were 
>> exposed.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks again,
>> >>>>> Bud
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Mary Lou Troy wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Bud,
>> >>>>>> Fretless is a 1991. We usually sail with the board all the way
>> >>>>>> down. Exceptions are downwind or very shallow water.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Mary Lou
>> >>>>>> 1991 R22 Fretless
>> >>>>>> Rock Hall, MD
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> At 09:35 PM 3/6/2007, you wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Rummy,
>> >>>>>>> I have a 1990 R22, and I am pretty sure I do not have a 
>> "diamond"
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> board.
>> >>>
>> >>>>>>> Thanks,
>> >>>>>>> -Bud
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Bud,
>> >>>>>>>> It depends on what year and centerboard design you have?
>> >>>>>>>> Rummy
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >
>> >
>> > **************************************
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>> >
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>> >>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>
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