[Rhodes22-list] Rummy is right, but I may still need a 110

[Peter Thorn]

Wally,

Yeah, I agree with you about furling.  You really hit it on the nose and
your comments agree with what most sailmakers have told me.

But what about tacking?  1988 R22 Raven came with a 1988 Lee 175 sail -- 
similar to Rummy's  I guess.  It's almost 5 oz cloth and it so sturdy and
heavy it will likely wear forever.  In really light air, the stuff many
people won't sail in but I often race in right before the RC cancels the
racing for lack of air,  it collapses.  Anyway, tacking Raven's 175 is like
tacking the "Cutty Sark" compared to tacking the high clew Doyle 135 that
also came with the boat.  Clean, quick tacks.  If the wind is over 8-10,
that is definitely my preferred headsail.

PT





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "TN Rhodey" <tnrhodey at gmail.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy is right, but I may still need a 110


> David,
>
> Once your start furling any sail the shape and performance is negatively
> effected. This is a fact. You can not furl the leading edge flat. Anyone
who
> tells you a partially furled sails does not have a negative effect on sail
> shape is in denial. A 175 furled down to 125 is going to have pretty poor
> shape regardless of vendor. Ask the vendor and they will tell you the same
> thing (if they are honest). Yes you can make adjustments to limit the
> problem but facts are facts. A 155 furled to 125 will pull better than a
175
> furled to 125. A 155 at 135 will pull better than a 175 furled to
> 135......So up to conditions that call for 155 or less the 155 will be the
> best sail.
>
> Now is a 175 furled to 160 better than a 155? Maybe.....maybe not. This
may
> depend more on point of sail than anything else. Some say the 175
maximizes
> potenital but in my eyes it is the wrong sail more often than it is the
> right one. It does seem to me that those that like the 175 sail have never
> tried anything different and typically don't race their boat.
>
> I don't have a 110 (or a 175) but if you really want a smaller sail for
> heavy weather I would consider the 125 or 135. I have a 155 and a 125. The
> 125 is the max size that can fit fully unfurled inside the shrouds. It
comes
> just short of hitting spreaders. This furls down to about a 110 and still
> holds shape ok. I have flown a friends sail that looked to me like it
would
> be close to a 165/175. Great sail off the wind in steady light/med
> winds... but really was too heavy for light winds and too much sail for
> heavy winds. Many others on this list have complained about the 175 in
very
> light winds....too heavy and will not hold shape. Another common complaint
> with 175 is lee helm.
>
> It really depends on your own preference and sailing conditions.
>
> Fair Winds,
>
> Wally
>
>
>
>
> On 5/24/07, David Culp <daculp at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Rummy:
> >
> > No doubt the 175 maximizes the potential of the boat design and
therefore
> > is
> > the correct sail for the boat for the majority of owners.  On my narrow,
> > long and winding lake with its fickle winds, I very rarely get to enjoy
it
> > fully unfurled for long periods.  It has happened on a few days and it
was
> > great.  When I can get a steady enough wind to keep it filled but not so
> > strong as to require reducing its size I have been impressed with
> > performance and have learned to tack it fairly well.  The terrain around
> > here also causes many wind direction changes and the result is almost
> > constant sail trimming.  You can be drifting one minute in 6 kts, and
then
> > around the next bend be reefing in 20.  This is not a sailing lake, at
> > least
> > not for boats with big gennies or spinnakers.  In fact, in 5 years I
have
> > only seen one spinnaker flown and it was me flying it from a friend's
> > Flying
> > Scot.
> >
> > You're right, I for one, admit that I do not know how to use the 175
> > properly and if I ever want to really learn how, I am going to have to
> > trailer to a better locale where I can get on some steady runs and
> > experiment with it.   This year is my second season and I am really
> > working
> > the traveler a lot more and that has been a help with it.  I am going to
> > get
> > a pole and attach it to the shrouds as you suggest.  This will help me
> > greatly on light wind days to keep the sail presented properly to the
> > wind.
> > In moderate winds, I usually have no problems wing and wing.
> >
> > It might be better for me in my locale to change out the furler to the
CDI
> > which allows sail changes because I would not want to give up having the
> > 175
> > for those special days.  I'm guessing a 110 would be the most useful and
> > also guessing that it would furl out to just past the upper shroud area.
> > Anyone have a 110 and can tell me where the clew extends to when fully
> > unfurled?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 07:46:08 EDT
> > From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Genoa size and usage
> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > Message-ID: <d36.8802f0d.3386d500 at aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> > David,
> > Instead of attaching the whisker pole to the special eye on the front of
> > the
> > mast, try attaching it to the shrouds. Going forward to attach and push
> > out
> > a whisker pole requires crew on board. You can attach to one of the
> > shrouds
> > without going forward and I do it all the time single handing.
> > I was out sailing with another R22 skipper this past Sunday and he
> > couldn't
> > believe how simple it was. He thought the only place you could attach it
> > was
> > on  the front of the mast, Duh!
> > I have allowed a lot of discussion of the 175 to slide by the past
couple
> > of
> > weeks, but this is coming to a screeching halt.
> > The 175 is the best sail for the R22. It provides all the power on this
> > boat. Furling my 175 does not ruin the sail shape. I have the same Lee
> > sail
> > that
> > came with the boat in 1988. Perhaps the Doyle sails have lousy shape
when
> > furled, but mine does not. The 175 gives you so many advantages,
> > especially
> > in
> > light air conditions. In heavy air, it can give you a rush you have
never
> > experienced. Unless you have the CDI furler and can change your sails,
the
> > 175  is
> > the route to go. If you don't think so, then you simply don't know your
> > boat
> > or how to use the sail properly and would be better off with a smaller
> > sail.
> >
> > Rummy said that.
> > __________________________________________________
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> >
> __________________________________________________
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