[Rhodes22-list] 21st Century 'Ernie Pyle"

Tue Apr 15 21:19:23 EDT 2008

Brad - Responses in line.

Brad Haslett wrote:
> Robert,
> The last sentence says it all, "There is a recognition that we did not
> understand the extent to which their culture made it difficult to move from
> an authoritarian government to liberal democracy."
> 
> Where shall we go now?  The world is a small globe - fast airplanes make it
> smaller.  We as a nation are imperfect, but what nation is better?  Where do
> Chinese dissidents who fear for their lives for their involvement in
> Tienanmen Square have to run?  In what nation can Islam evolve to the more
> enlightened passages of the Koran?  If we as Americans don't believe in the
> spirit of 1776, what hope do we hold for the rest of the world, most of
> which envies our lifestyle and freedoms?

--------------------------------------------------------

The Spirit of 1776 was based on 200 years of development 
from barely surviving colony to thriving society quite 
able to take care of itself, largely devoid of internal 
frictions and generally appreciative of diverse sources 
and expressions of knowledge.

Not so Iraq.

Iraq is an artificial compendium of tribal factions 
recently (70 years ago) pasted together to deliver oil to 
the European communities and later to a variety of 
industrial nations.  

So long as the oil flow was not tampered with, we had 
little care for the treatment of the quasi-nation's 
peoples.  As OPEC grew in power, it became obvious that 
they could take their marbles and leave the game - a 
power shift not to be accepted.

We propped up Saddam as long as he was singing our tune, 
but then he got too big for his britches, did the Kuwait 
thing, and we started looking for the way to edge him out 
of power.

Bush Sr. figured that if he destroyed Saddam's army and 
credibility as a warrior, sanctions and popular pressure 
would force him out.  Didn't work, of course, as Saddam 
was a canny dictator.

One of our first major mistakes was to see Saddam in 
terms of western mores, and his people as yearning for
Jeffersonian democracy.

Etc., etc...

The point is that we have persisted in trying to deal 
with Saddam, the Iraqis, and other Mid-east leaders as 
if they were westerners.  It ain't so.

And there are as many ways to express democracy as there 
are individuals.  That is part of what democracy is 
about -- not all, but part.

But this is the part that we are tripping over.

We need to recognize that there is a lot of work to do 
to in preparing for our style of democracy.  Even in 
our own country, there are many who do not understand 
or accept the responsibilities of democracy.

Coercion and/or invasion and/or occupation are not 
effective tools in accomplishing this.  Leadership by
example -- doing the right thing -- is far more 
effective.  Getting along with -- honoring the 
independence of -- our neighbors beats, "If you aren't 
with us, you are against us."

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm all for realism, including the 'meat' of the article you referenced.
> But, "where do we go now?"
> 
> It's easy to focus on the Bush 43 failures and the difficulties of the Iraq
> invasion.  That's one small part of a larger problem.  Solutions?

-------------------------------------------------------

Do the right thing.  Lead by example.  Support emerging 
countries by helping them grow straight.  Build consensus 
among the community of nations rather than saying, "I am 
the decider" to the rest of the world.  Live smaller so 
we do not need to give away out treasure and finest to 
reap resources from the rest of the world.

You have heard this before.  I am required to minimize 
my footprint.  My contribution.

And when dealing with vandals (AKA terrorists) shoot 
straight and fast.  No religion or politic that advocates 
murder of innocents has any validity.  This ain't PC, it's 
basic to our survival.

/Robert
----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Brad
> 
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Robert Skinner <robert at squirrelhaven.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Brad,
> >
> > I am also pleased and proud of what our forces have
> > accomplished, and moreover, how they have done so.
> > We have put our finest in harms way, and they have
> > conducted themselves like ladies and gentlemen.  The
> > lapses from the highest standards of behavior that
> > we could ask for are all the more noteable for their
> > scarcity.  Yon's work is promising.
> >
> > I have had no argument with the boots on the ground,
> > unless they have Blackwater insignia.
> >
> > That said, I have had and continue to have
> > reservations about the floating definitions of the
> > mission(s) that our armed forces have been tasked
> > with.
> >
> > I firmly believe that the form of democracy that
> > grew in the United States requires a couple of
> > centuries of substrate civilization and tolerance
> > to grow and find its full expression.
> >
> > The way in which the free Iraqi codify their use of
> > that freedom will inevitably be different than the US
> > Constitution.  For example, it is perfectly
> > reasonable for them to decide to break up what was an
> > artificial joining of disparate ethologies.  In any
> > case, it is their country, and they must be free to
> > evolve or reshape it as necessary.
> >
> > The following article, despite its origin on the left
> > coast, has some meat, as it shows an evolving realism
> > among the military leaders as they negotiate their
> > way through the minefield of manifold mission
> > statements from Bush 43.
> >
> > It is short, and not so much political as an
> > interesting glimpse of the current military thinking
> > about the situation in Iraq.
> >
> >
> > http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-petraeus13apr13,1,6444719.story
> >
> > /Robert
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> > Brad Haslett wrote:
> > >
> > > Michael Yon is at 17 on the list at Amazon today and rising fast (up 250
> > in
> > > one week and it hasn't been released yet!).  Trust me, this is not
> > > propaganda.  Whatever you think of 43 or the war in Iraq, you at least
> > > should read about the experience and professionalism of our troops and
> > > especially the Marines.  The photo on the book cover still brings tears
> > to
> > > my eyes every time I see it (the story behind the photo is sad). Yon was
> > > banned for awhile by the military for 'calling the shots as he saw them'
> > and
> > > is as impartial a witness as one can find for this national experience.
> > >
> > > Brad
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0980076323?ie=UTF8&tag=wwwviolentkicom&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0980076323
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> > --
> > Robert Skinner  "Squirrel Haven"
> > Gorham, Maine         04038-1331
> > s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list

-- 
Robert Skinner  "Squirrel Haven" 
Gorham, Maine         04038-1331
s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."