[Rhodes22-list] E85

Thu Apr 17 19:38:24 EDT 2008

Herb,

Since you place that freshly crafted soapbox right square in front of me,
let me jump on it for a short sermon.  The oil business is pretty simple as
it is straight forward gambling.  With today's technology you know before
you sink the first segment of drill stem whether there's oil down there or
not (after spending millions on homework).  What you don't know is what the
price of your product will be when the field comes online ten years down the
road, or if it's on foreign soil, whether your assets will be nationalized.
American oil companies only produce 10% of the worlds oil and don't control
the price.  However, anyone can buy stock in American oil companies if you
think they have an unfair advantage in the marketplace.  If you are a
prudent investor and look at their long term performance, you'll see they've
done little better than the average investor would do with a dart and last
weeks Wall Street Journal.

I'm more fortunate than most in that one of the few things Memphis has going
for it is that our tap water consistently tests better than most bottled
waters.  That's good since bottled water costs more than gasoline!

Brad

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
wrote:

> Brad, though I don't agree 100% with the statement, your last comment
> hits the nail pretty squarely.
>
> Sometimes, a subsidy will generate interest in an area that's so new it
> doesn't generate interest, or something that's currently so "inertia -
> bound" that there's little interest in getting out of the "way we've
> done things".
>
> Oil could be in the last category, but I don't think ethanol would need
> the level of "subsidy attention" it's getting if it made economic sense.
> In spite of the current "we hate big companies" attitude right now, oil
> companies are pretty forward thinkers, and there's no shortage money for
> them if it made sense.
>
> I think it's almost laughable (it would be, except so many take it
> serious) that we're talking about taking a food product that requires
> lots of land and effort to grow, and using THAT to replace something
> that, until we created a use for it, was junk.
>
>
> Brad Haslett wrote:
> > Rik,
> >
> > Here's an interesting addition to the discussion going on today in your
> > backyard.
> >
> >
> http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2008-04/scientists-weigh-biofuels-vs-food-debate
> >
> > My oldest niece is married to a big-time farmer in downstate Illinois.
>  He
> > and his brothers are smart guys and good farmers but they tried to get
> me in
> > on the ethanol scam early in the process and I didn't bite.  "Brad",
> (his
> > name is Brad also), "this ethanol boondoggle is going to bite you in the
> ass
> > sooner or later".  One of the reasons he and his brothers are good
> farmers
> > is because they don't just deal in row crops.  Each is responsible for a
> > specific segment of their operation including beef and pork finishing.
>  They
> > run a HUGE hog finishing operation.  What do pigs eat?  What do chickens
> > eat?  What do cows eat when they're being 'polished' for market?
>  Needless
> > to say, Uncle Brad, the complete and total dumbass farmer, had the last
> say
> > on this one.
> >
> > I know I'm preaching to the choir with you, but if something makes good
> > economic sense, it doesn't need a subsidy!
> >
> > Brad
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Rik Sandberg <sanderico1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Slim,
> >>
> >> If it was me, I'd use that old gas up in my car/truck. Just mix it in a
> >> couple gallons at a time with the fresh stuff that's in your car
> >> already. There ain't much else you can really do to get rid of it.
> >> People anymore would get pretty excited if they saw you pouring it out
> >> somewhere.
> >>
> >> Putting the stabil in now won't help anything.
> >>
> >> Rik
> >>
> >> "Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Steven Alm wrote:
> >>
> >>> OK, next question:  I have some left-over gas from last season in both
> >>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>> sailboat and my fishing boat (Johnson 35 hs)  I did not put in any
> >>>
> >> Stabil or
> >>
> >>> anything in it last fall.  Do I need to disgard it or can I add the
> >>>
> >> stuff to
> >>
> >>> it now?
> >>>
> >>> Slim
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Rik Sandberg <sanderico1 at gmail.com>
> >>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> Brad,
> >>>>
> >>>> Sure, we heard all that sky is falling bs when we first started using
> >>>> ethanol in our gas 30 years ago. Yes, if your fuel system was
> >>>> exceptionally full of gunk, you might have trouble with the fuel
> filter
> >>>> clogging for a bit due to the different solvent properties of the
> >>>> ethanol. Like any gas it need some Stabil or something in it if you
> are
> >>>> going to leave it sitting around for a long time.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've been using this stuff in cars, trucks, lawn mowers, boat motors
> >>>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>>> every other gas powered machine I've owned for 30 years, as I said,
> and
> >>>> have never had a problem. Those of you that are just starting out
> with
> >>>> it now are going to be hearing all the horror stories we listened to
> 30
> >>>> years ago. Unfortunately no one seems to be able to look at the
> >>>> experience of people who have gone before them and realize that if it
> >>>> works OK for them, why shouldn't it work for me.
> >>>>
> >>>> Heck, I ran my sprint cars for a couple years on straight ethanol
> when
> >>>>
> >> I
> >>
> >>>> had a sponsor for the stuff. The rest of the time we used methanol
> >>>>
> >> which
> >>
> >>>> is much harder on stuff.
> >>>>
> >>>> Rik
> >>>>
> >>>> "Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Rik,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You hope you're buying 10% or less ethanol.  The way it is mixed at
> >>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>> tank
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> farm is pretty crude and that is why it is called "splash" blending.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>  Here's
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> a link to some marine issues-
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.theoutboardwizard.com/boat_ethanol_danger_precaution.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Brad
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Rik Sandberg <sanderico1 at gmail.com>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Slim,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What you're buying here in MN isn't E85, it's gasoline with 10%
> >>>>>>
> >> ethanol
> >>
> >>>>>> added. You've been running the stuff in your car for years. So have
> >>>>>>
> >> I.
> >>
> >>>>>> Most pumps say "this fuel contains 10% ethanol"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There aren't many stations around yet that have E85. If you find
> one,
> >>>>>> the pump generally has a yellow hose and the pump definitely says
> E85
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>> on
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> it. Our Cenex in town has E85. It's the only one. Yes, unless you
> >>>>>>
> >> have
> >>
> >>>> a
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> flex fuel vehicle, you don't want to try to use this stuff.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ethanol enriched gasoline is 10% ethanol and 90% gas. Most any
> >>>>>>
> >> internal
> >>
> >>>>>> combustion engine can run this stuff, unmodified, with no problem.
> >>>>>>
> >> This
> >>
> >>>>>> has been sold at most every station in MN for almost 30 years E85
> is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>> 85%
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> ethanol and 15% gasoline ..... Big difference.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Your scooter friend doesn't know what he is talking about.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Rik
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Steven Alm wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I've got some good news and some bad news.  The good news is that
> we
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> finally
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> got some spring-like weather up here in Minneapolis and I got the
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> scooter
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> out for a nice long ride.  The bad news is that I was talking to
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> another
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> biker dude who told me he goes down to Iowa and loads up on gas
> for
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> his
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> bike
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> because Iowa doesn't use any ethanol.  He told me virtually all
> gas
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> stations
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> in Minnesota have it.  I thought they had to put a sticker on the
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> pumps
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> saying it's E85.  WTF?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I know we've discussed this before but IIRC engines have to be
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> reworked
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> run on ethanol because it's hard on hoses, gives lower gas-mileage
> >>>>>>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> so
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> on, and so-called "flex fuel vehicles" have undergone this
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> modification.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> But I'm sure the vast majority of Minnesotans have not made these
> >>>>>>> modifications to their cars so I'm wondering if we're all ruining
> >>>>>>>
> >> our
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> cars
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> or was this biker dude just blowing smoke.  I've googled around a
> >>>>>>>
> >> bit
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> can't find evidence one way or the other if all or how many
> >>>>>>>
> >> Minnesota
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> gas
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> stations have it now.  Or if it's required that pumps display a
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> sticker.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm not at all on the corn-produced ethanol bandwagon and don't
> see
> >>>>>>>
> >> it
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> as a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> viable option--unless of course you're a corn farmer of which
> there
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> are
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> lot in this neck of the woods.  But there's probably no place that
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> grows
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> more corn than Iowa.  So what do the Iowegians know that we
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> Minnesotans
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> don't know about ethanol?  More importantly, am I wrecking my
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> scooter's
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> engine?  My out board?  My V-8 without even knowing that I'm
> running
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> E85?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Aside--they're all running well but I haven't checked gas mileage
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> lately.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Slim
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >
> >
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