[Rhodes22-list] U.S. medical system leading cause of death - comment to Peter
Rik Sandberg
sanderico1 at gmail.com
Thu Apr 24 15:27:12 EDT 2008
Herb,
Agree. The fox is definitely in charge of the hen house.
Rik
"Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg
Herb Parsons wrote:
> And, that's the elephant in the room that's being ignored. This country
> will continue to have one of the best health care systems in the world,
> as long as it's controlled by the free enterprise system (instead of
> socialism). What will continue to keep it from being the very best, and
> continue to force most of the problems it has, is the our support of a
> system whose livlihood is dependent placing blame for a natural event -
> death.
>
> We need to control the litigation of the health care industry - that
> will control the prices.
>
> Unfortunately, we depend on lawmakers, most of whom were formerly
> LAWYERS, to control that litigation.
>
> Waddaya think the chances are of THAT happening.
>
> Notice none of them are pointing to the "evil" lawyers - it's always the
> insurance companies and/or the health care providers...
>
> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>
>> Herb,
>>
>> True. That is probably the biggest detriment to good medicine that man
>> has ever devised.
>>
>> But I figured we'd all already agree on that anyway. :-)
>>
>> Rik
>>
>> "Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg
>>
>>
>>
>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>
>>
>>> In addition to the other information provided so far, you have to also
>>> factor in the fact that there is an entire industry whose livelihood is
>>> dependent on proving that the doctor/medical providor was "to blame".
>>> There's little doubt that lawyers have helped make the numbers look
>>> greater than they are.
>>>
>>> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> Good point, but my "Somebody isn't very good at statistics" was meant to
>>>> be ironical.
>>>>
>>>> Don't believe for a minute though, that I am confusing anything with
>>>> fact. Most of the "statistics" on these sites begin to make sense when
>>>> you consider who is going to benefit from the money spent by the suck
>>>> ..... uh, believers. Most of the math looks pretty fuzzy to me and
>>>> always slants the way the particular vendor needs it to. Also, for the
>>>> 26 years I knew her before her stroke, my wife was involved in the
>>>> medical profession (respiratory therapist). We have had many, MANY
>>>> discussions about problems caused by drugs and/or combinations of them.
>>>>
>>>> I've spent quite a bit of time on the internet the last two years trying
>>>> to find things that might help my wife after her stroke. Many of the
>>>> pages that come up when you Google Pete's "us medical system
>>>> number one cause of deaths" are pages that I have seen before as I have
>>>> searched for both natural remedies that might be useful and problems
>>>> that I might expect to encounter with the various pharmaceuticals that
>>>> have been prescribed to my wife.
>>>>
>>>> In defense of the doctors though, I find it troubling that the
>>>> supposedly knowledgeable people writing these sites so easily put the
>>>> blame on a "doctors mistake" when folks have problems with side effects
>>>> from a drug. Anyone who has been around medicine for more than a few
>>>> minutes should know that every human is different and it is impossible
>>>> to know in advance what an individual's reaction will be to any given
>>>> drug. Some people tolerate things and others don't. All the doctor can
>>>> do is try different things and learn from the results for each
>>>> individual. In this case a decision may be wrong, but that doesn't
>>>> necessarily make it a mistake.
>>>>
>>>> But, as I said earlier, I/we don't like pharmaceutical pills/drugs in
>>>> general and avoid them whenever possible.
>>>>
>>>> Rik
>>>>
>>>> "Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael D. Weisner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Rik,
>>>>>
>>>>> On the contrary, somebody is very good with statistics. According to Mark Twain, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Please do not confuse what is written on the Internet with fact. One must verify, corroborate and validate the materials.
>>>>>
>>>>> Without taking sides on this issue since I am involved in the US system of medical care, I am moved to investigate further before dismissing the material.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
>>>>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>>>>
>>>>> From: "Rik Sandberg" <sanderico1 at gmail.com>Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:59 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps we need to consider who is putting these statistics out here for
>>>>>> us. Looks like most of these folks would like to sell us some
>>>>>> nutritional supplements. I am not a fan of doctors and pills. I avoid
>>>>>> them like the plague. I have also seen though, that the BS the
>>>>>> nutritional supplement industry slings around gets pretty fantastic.
>>>>>> While I do believe that nutritional supplements are less likely to do
>>>>>> you harm than pharmaceuticals, chances are, they won't live up to the
>>>>>> miracle claims made about them either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One article has heart disease deaths at 910,000 annually. Another says
>>>>>> 700,000. Quite a spread. Somebody isn't very good at statistics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rik
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> petelargo wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No sir. You are absolutely 100% incorrect. This is based on statistical
>>>>>>> evidence. I won't do your research for you. Just google 'us medical system
>>>>>>> number one cause of deaths'. It's a tough pill to swallow. (pun intended).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "New information has been presented showing the degree to which Americans
>>>>>>> have been subjected to injury and death by medical errors. The results of
>>>>>>> seven years of research reviewing thousands of studies conducted by the NIA
>>>>>>> now show that medical errors are the number one cause of death and injury in
>>>>>>> the United States. According to the NIA's report, over 784,000 people die
>>>>>>> annually due to medical mistakes. Comparatively, the 2001 annual death rate
>>>>>>> for heart disease was 699,697 and the annual death rate for cancer was
>>>>>>> 553,251."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peter,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When making such statements, please post citations and references.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would suggest that your citations will come from the media which goes
>>>>>>>> out of its way to cause controversy to drum up business.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Medical mistakes do occur, but having spent many years in several
>>>>>>>> hospitals; I would say your statement is not accurate. Especially when
>>>>>>>> compared to medical care around the world. Yes, I have personally
>>>>>>>> inspected health care in a 3rd world country.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would rather suggest that you consider that people doing ‘stupid’ things
>>>>>>>> is the leading cause of death. That would include reckless driving, no
>>>>>>>> life preservers while boating, smoking, excessive alcohol, excessive and
>>>>>>>> recreational drugs, suicide, believing the national media that the world
>>>>>>>> is ending, believing the national media that all is negative...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Again, like many others, the national media has created a herd sheep
>>>>>>>> mentality... Remember, that man was not created to live forever. That
>>>>>>>> disease and pestilence are our lot. Take each hour given you, do your
>>>>>>>> best and enjoy it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the meantime, remember that physicians use available science to fix a
>>>>>>>> problem and get people going a few hours longer. They are not ‘God’.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, they can be stifled by bureaucratic controlled systems. They can
>>>>>>>> be stifled by socialism. Socialism kills human initiative. Doctors are
>>>>>>>> only human, and their initiative and imagination can be debilitated
>>>>>>>> fighting socialistic controlled systems.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>>>>> “Every great advancement in science has issued from a new audacity of
>>>>>>>> imagination.” John Dewey
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> petelargo wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your post. You will see plenty scare tactic e-mails and 'BOO'
>>>>>>>>> blogs on this in the upcoming months. Most will be nonsense. By what
>>>>>>>>> measure is the current health care system so great if right now the
>>>>>>>>> health care system itself in the united states is the leading cause of
>>>>>>>>> death? Somethings wrong and I mean big time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lynn Hoffman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I noticed in one of the recent diatribes, a letter from someone who
>>>>>>>>>> claimed
>>>>>>>>>> that socialism killed his parents. There's a lot to be said about
>>>>>>>>>> that letter, but
>>>>>>>>>> I think I'll just comment on the claim that there are only three
>>>>>>>>>> oncologists in Montreal.
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, I've come to know a little bit about oncologists and
>>>>>>>>>> where to
>>>>>>>>>> find 'em. Here's the medical roster of the oncology department at one
>>>>>>>>>> hospital there. (McGill)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Gerald Batist - Chair
>>>>>>>>>> Penny Chipman, Manager, Clinical Research Program
>>>>>>>>>> Fran Ezzy-Jorgensen, Administrative Officer, Department of Oncology
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Eduardo Franco - Cancer Division of Epidemiology
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Carolyn Freeman - Division of Radiation Oncology
>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Thomas Jagoe - Cancer Nutrition-Rehabilitation Program
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Petr Kavan - Adolescent and Young Adult Oncology Program
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Carmen Loiselle - Oncology Nursing
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Richard Margolese - Oncology Department, JGH
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Catalin Mihalcioiu - Division of Medical Oncology
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Wilson Miller - Clinical Research Program
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Lawrence Panasci - Division of Medical Oncology
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Michael Pollack - Cancer Prevention Program
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Jaroslav Prchal - Community Oncology Program
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Zeev Rosberger - Psychosocial Oncology Program
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Jeremy Sturgeon - Oncology Department, MUHC
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Simon Tanguay - Prostate Cancer Program
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Marc Tischkowitz - Cancer Genetics Program
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Anna Towers - Palliative Care
>>>>>>>>>> Dr Michel Tremblay - Basic Cancer Research
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So the guy who wrote that is a patent liar. The sad thing is that
>>>>>>>>>> many people will read that and remember something about how
>>>>>>>>>> 'socialized medicine killed somebody and ain't it a shame?' The good
>>>>>>>>>> news is that this crap is the best they got and maybe we'll get
>>>>>>>>>> somewhere with health care when people know the facts.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lynn Hoffman is the author of bang BANG, a novel about a woman who
>>>>>>>>>> uses some unusual weapons to tackle the gun culture in Philadelphia.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> He is also the author of The New Short Course in Wine from
>>>>>>>>>> PrenticeHall.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> More? want to read rave reviews? an excerpt?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.kunati.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can read more and order a copy of bang-BANG from:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1601640005
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> or from your local bookseller.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you're looking for great wines for less than $US20, get the latest
>>>>>>>>>> finds at http://shortcourseinwine.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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