[Rhodes22-list] Herb's Response
JbTek
j.bulfer at jbtek.com
Tue Dec 2 08:44:11 EST 2008
Herb,
I think Slim hit the nail right on the head. If he lost you....your lost.
Jb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Herb's Response
> I'm sorry Slim, you've lost me. Who on here has ever proposed that
> "religion is some sort of guarantee or even a hint that a person is
> righteous"?
>
> You keep making asinine assumptions about me, and my ideas. I think it's
> high time you put up or shut up. Frankly, you've made it obvious, you
> don't care for religion, but that doesn't mean you have to hate folks
> that are religious. No one here, especially myself, has ever made any
> sort of claim as you propose below. For that matter, nor do I give
> exclusively to my church, nor is my church, or denomination, a
> "fundamentalist" one, or any number of other nonsensical things you've
> claimed about me.
>
> For what it's worth, your assumptions about me, and about my beliefs,
> are wrong. If you would drop your preconceived ideas about me, stop
> attributing ideas and attitudes to me that aren't mine, and stop
> attacking everything I say simply because I say it, you might find what
> I actually DO say and think a lot less "objectionable".
>
> I suspect you won't. I suspect you have your own bigotries and
> prejudices. Shame on the folks that caused them, but shame on you for
> holding them so dear.
>
> Now, prove me wrong, I dare you.
>
>
> Steven Alm wrote:
> > Whatever percentage of the population has Christian morals, one can
assume
> > that the same percentage is true of most subsets including jailed
> > criminals. In fact many convicts have religious-themed tattoos
indicating
> > their faith. Christianity is prevalent throughout our *entire* culture
> > including prison. So how does it follow that religion is some sort of
> > guarantee or even a hint that a person is righteous? It doesn't.
Since
> > many Christians are prisoners and many atheists are not, what
connections
> > can be made regarding religion and morals? None.
> >
> > In our secular world we have laws. This system of crime and punishment
> > steers most people, including atheists from doing the "wrong" thing and
> > getting in trouble for it. But I doubt that most people avoid the
"wrong"
> > in order to avoid punishment. Rather, people choose the "right" thing
> > because it's "right." It's that simple. We learn it from living and we
> > just get it. Sure, you can come up with evidence to the contrary but
not
> > enough evidence to suggest any religious connection. For every atheist
in
> > jail, I'll show you ten Christians. I'm not saying that Christianity
> > doesn't teach morals because it certainly does. (Although, IMO some of
the
> > teachings are objectionable. I'd go so far as to say that *some*
religious
> > teachings are despicable.) I'm saying Christianity nor any other
religion
> > has by no means the exclusive on teaching ethical, moral and righteous
> > behavior. It just comes naturally to most normal, non-extreme people.
> > Surely, you don't suggest that a man without religion would be more
prone
> > to killing and robbing. In fact, world-wide it would appear the
opposite is
> > true. From the Aztecs to the present day, there has been more blood
shed,
> > more repression and misery in the name of religion than any other cause
I'm
> > aware of.
> >
> > Slim
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Todd Tavares <sprocket80 at mail.com>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Herb,
> >>
> >> If you say a person, (assuming a sane person) even one who does not
> >> follow a religious belief system or obligation, acts according to what
> >> ever he feels is right and wrong, I think then by definition all men
have
> >> morals--Christian, criminal, fanatic or fallibilist. My point is that
to
> >> be safe in his conviction and environment, even a non-religious person
> >> must have faith that others (geographically) around him in society also
> >> have an acceptable regard for right and wrong. I wasn't stating a fact,
> >> just poking fun at what has already been said here---that even a
humanist
> >> mus have faith.
> >>
> >>
> >> Todd T
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>
> >> From: "Herb Parsons"
> >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Herb's Response
> >> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:04:46 -0600
> >>
> >>
> >> On what do you base the notion that "all men (and women) have
> >> morals"?
> >> Are you prepared to face some evidence that your assumption is wrong?
> >>
> >>
> >> Todd Tavares wrote:
> >> > Herb, " if a man does NOT have
> >> > religion (of some sort), then his morals are based only on what he
> >> > believes to be right or wrong. Good point. But those who believe
> >> there
> >> > is nothing greater than ourselves and when we die it is "game over"
> >> must have
> >> > faith that all men have some base set of morals. I have faith that
> >> all
> >> > men (and women) have morals. I guess this means I should stop
> >> carrying my
> >> > .357? :^D
> >> > Todd T
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Herb Parsons"
> >> > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Herb's Response
> >> > Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:57:14 -0600
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Right after I hit send, it occurred to me, I did not directly
> >> answer
> >> > your question.
> >> >
> >> > No, I am not of the opinion that man would not have morals without
> >> > religion. I AM of the opinion though, that if a man does NOT have
> >> > religion (of some sort), then his morals are based only on what he
> >> > believes to be right or wrong. And, as we know, human nature is a
> >> > fickle
> >> > entity, and personally guided beliefs are subject to change on a
> >> > whim.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > TN Rhodey wrote:
> >> > > Herb, I am not religious but I don't knock those that are. I
> >> would
> >> > have to
> >> > > trash to many friends and family.
> >> > >
> >> > > Are you of the opinion that man would not have morals/values
> >> > without
> >> > > religion? I would suggest the values may have come first. Then
> >> once
> >> > > established the Bible, Koran and such were written. Most animals
> >> > have a
> >> > > level of acceptable herd/pack behaviour.
> >> > >
> >> > > Regarding karma....if you treat people like trash most likely
> >> > others will
> >> > > treat you the same. Like the old expression what goes around
> >> comes
> >> > around.
> >> > > For me nothing religious about it.
> >> > >
> >> > > Fair Winds,
> >> > >
> >> > > Wally
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Herb Parsons wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >> You caught that, huh?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> When I asked on here what constituted "extremists" in religion,
> >> > one of
> >> > >> the responses I got, when you boiled it down, was that basically
> >> > if you
> >> > >> belong to any of the mainstream religions, and actually believe
> >> > what
> >> > >> they preach, you're an extremist.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I would appear that we are heading for a time when "religion" is
> >> > >> acceptable only when the churches are social or political
> >> > organizations.
> >> > >> In other words, belonging to a church will be acceptable as long
> >> > as your
> >> > >> church isn't religious.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> That will be a sad state of affairs on a nation whose roots are
> >> > founded
> >> > >> in freedom of religion.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Even Slim hinted at a "religious belief" though he probably
> >> won't
> >> > >> acknowledge it as such:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> "Karma--what goes around comes round--I wouldn't argue with that
> >> > >> although I don't think that's a hard and fast rule."
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I have to wonder, even if it's not a "hard and fast rule", even
> >> if
> >> > it's
> >> > >> something that only happens most of the time - what is the
> >> > actuating
> >> > >> mechanism? What would cause the karma to take effect. Is it
> >> magic?
> >> > Is it
> >> > >> the great force of the universe that intervenes from time to
> >> time
> >> > to
> >> > >> keep things in balance? Is it the Judeo-Christian God saying "I
> >> > meant it
> >> > >> when I siad you mow what you sow"? Whatever supernatural entity
> >> > that
> >> > >> Slim believes keeps karma in balance is (at least one of) his
> >> > god(s). He
> >> > >> may not worship that god, but in his statement, he's at least
> >> > >> acknowledging its existence.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> THAT was the point of my post that prompted his latest. And I
> >> > STILL find
> >> > >> it ironic that those that denigrate mainstream religion will
> >> > freely
> >> > >> embrace other "belief" based systems.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> One of Slim's fellow musicians once said:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> You may call me anything but no matter what you say
> >> > >> You're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
> >> > >> You're gonna have to serve somebody.
> >> > >> Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
> >> > >> But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> And sorry all you science buffs, there is nothing scientific
> >> that
> >> > >> supports morality. You MAY make the argument that it's better
> >> > socially,
> >> > >> but that's not a scientific study. If all we're looking for is
> >> to
> >> > "get
> >> > >> the most" out of our three score and ten, then Ghengis Khan may
> >> > have had
> >> > >> a better idea.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> BTW, I have friends, close friends, that include a broad variety
> >> > of
> >> > >> religious beliefs, including agnostics and atheists. It's funny
> >> > that in
> >> > >> spite of my "kooky" beliefs and "extremism", I can find room for
> >> > them
> >> > >> and their beliefs, but some of the libs on here have no room for
> >> > mine.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> Herb,
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> The irony of Slim's rant is that he denigrates one set of
> >> > beliefs, and
> >> > >>> then goes on to defend his own set of beliefs (atheism). As a
> >> > >>> practicing agnostic, I don't "have a dog in this hunt" other
> >> than
> >> > >>> having a diverse collection of friends of all faiths.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> I've said it before and I'll say it again, those who preach
> >> > tolerance
> >> > >>> the most are often the most intolerant.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Brad
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Herb Parsons
> >> > >>>
> >> > >> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>> Slim,
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> I simply believe you're wrong. Not that you're a kook, not
> >> that
> >> > you're
> >> > >>>> an idiot. Simply that you're wrong.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> I have no need to label your beliefs as "extreme" or "kookie"
> >> or
> >> > >>>> anything else like that, just that they I believe they're
> >> wrong.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> I don't understand the need for you and others like you to
> >> > denigrate the
> >> > >>>> beliefs of others. When you call the beliefs of others
> >> "myths",
> >> > you
> >> > >>>> begin down that road. When you start refer to it by saying
> >> > "Merry
> >> > >>>> Christmas", you've become obnoxious about it.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> Think about this, think if you came to me in the little bar we
> >> > all like
> >> > >>>> to discuss, and said "Hey man, music is my life, I LOVE music"
> >> > and
> >> > >>>> responded "Anyone who devotes a life to changing air waves is
> >> an
> >> > idiot
> >> > >>>> and a looser", what would be your response?
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> Steven Alm wrote:
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>> Herb,
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> You keep bringing this up I suppose out of some kind of
> >> > indignation.
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> As a
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> Christian, I don't blame you. You have every right to your
> >> > religious
> >> > >>>>> beliefs--I just don't adhere to them myself and I see
> >> religious
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> extremism as
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> a threat to our civilization. Not that I think you, yourself
> >> > are an
> >> > >>>>> extremist per se (and I don't know you're not) but extremism
> >> in
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> general, no
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> matter what religion, will bring nothing but conflict. I
> >> > remember
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> hearing
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> an interview with Hamid Karzai who was asked, "If you could
> >> say
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> something to
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> Osama Bin Laden, what would you say?" His answer was, "I
> >> would
> >> > tell
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> him
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> he's not a Muslim." He's wrong. Osama IS a Muslim. An extreme
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> Muslim.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> Extremism is the enemy.
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> You talked about transubstantiation. Many Christian
> >> > denominations
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> believe
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> in that or something close. Or they believe in some kind of
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> representation
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> of that but it's all the same anyway--it's ritualized
> >> > cannibalism. No
> >> > >>>>> thanks! From that, all the way back to the talking snake, to
> >> > me, it
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> sounds
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> like a myth. I'm not buyin' it. It's just too kooky.
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> As for the other stuff you mentioned--Karma--what goes around
> >> > comes
> >> > >>>>> around--I wouldn't argue with that although I don't think
> >> > that's a hard
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> and
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> fast rule. Reincarnation--I doubt it. Ghosts--no opinion.
> >> Don't
> >> > need
> >> > >>>>> one. The existence of God? The invisible man in the sky who
> >> > knows
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> when you
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> are sleeping and knows when you're awake...? Merry Christmas.
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> You can have your beliefs, Herb, but I think it's all a myth.
> >> > Religion
> >> > >>>>> throughout all civilizations serve to answer three questions:
> >> > Where
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> did we
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> come from? How shall we live? What happens when we die?
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> Maybe I'm the kook but I believe in nature and I believe in
> >> > love. I
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> believe
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> that when you die it's "game over" so live right--it's your
> >> > only chance
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> to
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> be a man.
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> Slim
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Herb Parsons >>>>>
> >> > >>> wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> I read an interesting study the other day. It asserted (and
> >> > I'll
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >> openly
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>> say, I'll have a hard time finding it again, and even harder
> >> > time
> >> > >>>>>> vouching for it's veracity) that folks who claim to NOT
> >> > believe in
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >> God,
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>> actually have more "faith based" beliefs than deists do.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> Beliefs in "karma", "reincarnation", "ghosts", and yes, even
> >> > "global
> >> > >>>>>> warming morality" beliefs.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> Lots of "religious kookiness" to go around.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> My point at the time was the hypocrisy though. The person
> >> > throwing
> >> > >>>>>> around "religious kooks" labels was openly willing to vote
> >> for
> >> > the VP
> >> > >>>>>> candidate that is a practicing member of a religion that
> >> > openly
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >> teaches
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>> that when the priest blesses the wine and wafer, it
> >> > miraculously
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >> becomes
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>> both the blood and body of Christ Jesus.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> I'm not saying that doesn't happen. I AM saying folks should
> >> > be much
> >> > >>>>>> more careful with their "kook" labels. Faith is a precious
> >> > thing, and
> >> > >>>>>> one of the foundations of the nation in which we live.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> There's a saying - Dance with the one what brung ya.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> I say we should be careful about laughing at the one that
> >> > brung us.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> Herb,
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> Well, let's be honest here - you are a "religious kook"
> >> > because you
> >> > >>>>>>> have religious beliefs. There's nothing wrong with that,
> >> it's
> >> > just
> >> > >>>>>>> that you don't belong to the church of global warming or
> >> > whatever the
> >> > >>>>>>> accepted church of the day is. The people who preach
> >> > tolerance the
> >> > >>>>>>> most are the most intolerant people I know. Racist? I'll
> >> pay
> >> > a
> >> > >>>>>>> hundred bucks to anyone who can trace my family tree and
> >> > figure out
> >> > >>>>>>> what race I am. Make it a thousand for my daughter.
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> Brad
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Herb Parsons <
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >> hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> Much like the political mood of the country, my moods
> >> swing
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >> different
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>> ways. While you have been reading the posts the last two
> >> > months, you
> >> > >>>>>>>> missed those before that. Those where, attempts at
> >> rational
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >> discussion
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>> were met with "religious kook" and "racist" and, one of my
> >> > all time
> >> > >>>>>>>> favorites "democrats are the thinkers and debaters,
> >> > republicans are
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >> the
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>> just believers". Attempts at rational discussion were
> >> > one-sided. I
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >> would
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>> ask what made one a religious kook, and was just met with
> >> > additional
> >> > >>>>>>>> abuse. I would ask how my view made me racist, and simply
> >> be
> >> > met
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >> with
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>> more abuse. Eventually, I decided to agree with Elle's (as
> >> > of that
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >> time
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>> unvoiced opinion) that sometimes the "c" works.
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> But, I'll play nicely. I'll always play at least as nice,
> >> > and may
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >> even
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>> go the extra step for a while.
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> Herb,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> I understand and I agree with you. I did not mean to
> >> > suggest that
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> you
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> were being irrational. But you got the point because you
> >> > said:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> "It may be 'stooping to the same level', it may be
> >> > unnecessary, it
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> may
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> (and
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> probably does) escalate things, but it's not irrational.
> >> > Countering
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> a
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> personal attack with another one is not only rational, it
> >> > can often
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> be
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> instructional. And, it's a very good release mechanism."
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> Therefore, what I meant to suggest is that as smart a
> >> > person as you
> >> > >>>>>>>>> obviously are, I believe you could find a way to
> >> > instructionally
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> counter
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> what you perceive to be a personal attack without
> >> stooping
> >> > to the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> same
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> level or escalating things while still satisfying your
> >> > release
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> mechanism.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> I've read all of your posts over the last two months. I
> >> > know you
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> have
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> the
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> intellect and the capability. The only question is
> >> whether
> >> > you
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> have
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> the
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> desire. Why not give it a try? I don't see any downside.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> Paul
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Actually, I worded that deliberately. If someone chooses
> >> > to take a
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> person's view, and attack them personally for their
> >> view,
> >> > that
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> attack
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> may or may not be "rational". Here's examples:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> John Doe says "Historically, more white collar crimes
> >> are
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> committed by
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> white people". Responding to that by saying "John,
> >> you're
> >> > a
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> racist"
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> would be irrational. The view does not fit the comment,
> >> > because
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> John
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> is
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> merely repeating a fact.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> However, if John Doe says "I hate all those white
> >> people",
> >> > it
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> would
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> NOT
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> be irrational to say "John, you're a racist", since his
> >> > his view
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> is a
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> racist view.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> At the same time, a personal "counter attack" is NOT
> >> > irrational.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> It
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> may
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> be "stooping to the same level", it may be unnecessary,
> >> it
> >> > may
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> (and
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> probably does) escalate things, but it's not irrational.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> Countering a
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> personal attack with another one is not only rational,
> >> it
> >> > can
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> often be
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> instructional. And, it's a very good release mechanism.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> I would say that those that are offended by such things
> >> > would be
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> well
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> served not to BEGIN them. I will also so, you are the
> >> > exception to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> the
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> rule on here, and frankly, one of the few I've seen that
> >> > really
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> has a
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> reason to complain.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Herb,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> If you are a rational person (and I think you are), why
> >> > wouldn't
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> you
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> always repond rationally regardless of what the other
> >> > person does
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> or
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> says?
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Are you saying in a way that you are more than willing
> >> to
> >> > stoop
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> to
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> someone else's level? If so, I think you are demeaning
> >> > yourself.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> that's why some of these things sometimes spin out of
> >> > control.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> Stay
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> above
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> the fray. You're better than that.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Paul
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Apology accepted with one small note. If you were to
> >> go
> >> > back and
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> look
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> closer at my previous emails, I believe you'd see
> >> little
> >> > change
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> in
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> what
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm "doing of late". I respond to rational discussions
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> rationally. I
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> respond to irrational ones in a way I feel
> >> appropriate.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Skinner wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> You are right, Hank. When I reviewed the exchange,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> it was clear that I misunderstood Hank's message.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I went over the line, and owe Herb an apology.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb, of late you have been easier to take, and
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> your message was rational. I am in the wrong.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hank wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have to call foul on this one. Herb came back with
> >> a
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> reasonable
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> response
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your email, did not attack you, was calm and
> >> cool,
> >> > and then
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> you
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> huffy
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and complain? You have just lost any credibility or
> >> > right to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> bitch
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone else's posts.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hank
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Robert Skinner
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you got the last word - a lot of last words...
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You win. I have no further desire to talk to you.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Satisfied?
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mandate? I wasn't talking about a mandate, I was
> >> > talking
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> about
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fading off into the sunset.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not a big believer in the "mandate" stuff. A
> >> > politician
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> is
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elected.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It doesn't matter if he's elected by a 1% margin,
> >> or
> >> > a 90%
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> margin,
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he's
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elected, and he needs to start fulfilling the
> >> > promises and
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commitments
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he made to those that elected him. If Obama can do
> >> > that,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> I'll be
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprised. I don't think he can, nor do I think he
> >> > will.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> That's
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> why
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly upset by the results.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He made a lot of overt commitments that I don't
> >> > think he
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> will be
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and that's not even considering all the
> >> > "implied"
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> promises.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elected on a campaign of "let's take it away from
> >> > the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> minority
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> and
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to the majority", and LOTS of people are
> >> > expecting more
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> than
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> he
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be able to deliver. Don't pooh pooh those accounts
> >> > of people
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reporting
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about how happy they are that he's going to take
> >> > care of
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> their
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> gas
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bill
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and their mortgages.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then add to that the possible disaster that I see
> >> > looming in
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Iraq/Afghanistan. There's no doubt that the
> >> "implied
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> promise"
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> was
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he will get us out of Iraq, and begin fighting in
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> Afghanistan
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> and
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver up Bin Laden.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If he pulls out of Iraq fast enough to suit his
> >> left
> >> > wing
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followers,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will make Vietnam look like a policy masterpiece.
> >> We
> >> > will
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> literally
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pulling snatching victory away. If Iraq then falls
> >> > into a
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> mess
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> like
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened in Vietnam, shame shame shame (I had a
> >> typo
> >> > there
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> that
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> I
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corrected, but it still fits - same shame shame).
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then, we go into Afghanistan, and have the same
> >> > resounding
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "success"
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enjoyed by the Russians. I don't believe we have
> >> the
> >> > stomach
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> as
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> a
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nation
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to fight a man to man ground war that is required
> >> in
> >> > the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> mountains
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Afghanistan. If we won't let our military succeed
> >> in
> >> > Iraq,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> we
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surely
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will not in Afghanistan.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, do you REALLY think he's going to deliver up
> >> > Bin Laden?
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I suspect we're going to be hearing a LOT of "We
> >> may
> >> > not
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> succeed
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> in
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> term..."
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope though, that people have a good memory. I
> >> > know I did
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> when
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> I
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't vote for "read my lips" President Bush '41.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said, no mandate needed. He just needs to
> >> start
> >> > doing
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> what
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> he
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> promised to do. I think the next two years are
> >> going
> >> > to be
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope that the voters
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Skinner wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When it comes to mandates, he has done
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a lot better than his predecessor.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are undeniable advantages to verbal
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skills when communicating -- a talent
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conspicuous in its absence in Bush.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to Reagan, at least he could string a
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few words together without tripping on
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his tongue -- that was my point. It
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> served him well in negotiations.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You DO understand the difference between an
> >> > orator, and
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> someone
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oratory skills. Surely you're not saying that
> >> > after
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> hearing
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin's
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speech to the RNC that she had NO oratory
> >> skills?
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How does having (or not having) an oratory
> >> ability
> >> > reflect
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> a
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> lack
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence) of anti-intellectual attitudes?
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Robert, your guy won the election, but he
> >> > did not
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> receive a
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mandate for the rest of the world to blindly
> >> > become like
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> him
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> and
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Again, you used Reagan as an example, but you
> >> seem
> >> > to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> overlook
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "deep thinkers" and intellectual community were
> >> > saying
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> about
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> him
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For all of Carter's deep thinking and oratory
> >> > abilities,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> he
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> let a
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of "students" hold us hostage for over a year.
> >> My
> >> > personal
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> result
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actions during that disgraceful period were in a
> >> > large
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> part
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for 9-11.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take those radicals, who we were TOTALLY
> >> > unsuccessful in
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> dealing
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and multiply them by 10 fold. THAT is what the
> >> > orator and
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> deep
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinker
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is going to deal with. That's OK though, because
> >> > he's
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> already
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clear that he's willing to sit down with any of
> >> > them and
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> "talk".
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We'll see what the oratory and talk gets us.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Skinner wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb, I think that a person who has some
> >> oratory
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skills will be a help in negotiations with the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> international community. They do not have the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anti-intellectual attitude that has been
> >> anything
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but an asset as we interact with the world's
> >> best
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brains.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robtert (and others like him) are looking at
> >> > Palin from
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> the
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> far
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> left
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> view. They're somehow under the illusion that
> >> we
> >> > WANT an
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "orator"
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "deep thinker". It's funny the two he compared
> >> > her
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> (negatively)
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regan, who the Democrats lambasted much the
> >> same
> >> > way
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> they
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> did
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> her
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (remember when he talked about Star Wars
> >> > defense, and
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> they
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> started
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> derisively calling him Ray-Gun?), and
> >> President
> >> > Jimmy
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> Carter.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carter!!!
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, a great orator, a great guy in general, a
> >> > good
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> Christian
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> joke of a President. If that's what oratory
> >> > ability and
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> deep
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gets us, give me the common man (or woman)
> >> > instead!!!
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it seems you've bought into the MSM
> >> meme
> >> > and
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> haven't
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own homework. I suggest you do your own due
> >> > diligence
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> on
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> Gov.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin's
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very real accomplishments before you let
> >> other
> >> > people
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> do
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> your
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you. Unlike Obama's long string of
> >> failures
> >> > in
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> Chicago,
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point to real successes. Frankly, I'm not
> >> > impressed by
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> a
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harvard
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree in law or anything else. For the sake
> >> of
> >> > the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> country,
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wish
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a successful Obama Presidency. As for me
> >> > and my
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> family,
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "we're
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loaded for bear". How anyone can believe that
> >> a
> >> > leader
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> with a
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mediocre track record following failed
> >> economic
> >> > themes
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> can
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> be
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successful is beyond me. No one will be more
> >> > happily
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprised
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all works out OK than myself.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Robert
> >> Skinner
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly, she is no "Great Communicator."
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will never see "Bedtime for Palin."
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nor, I suspect, will we hear about a
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carteresque "lusting in the heart."
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, Brad.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But is too early to expect that Bambizilla
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will retire from the political scene. I
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suspect that the GOP spinsters will find
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some way to use her, perhaps as a contrast,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a straw woman, to a real Republican orator
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or deep thinker to spark up the 2012
> >> campaign.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But for the next two years, I hope, we can
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get working on the nation's business. We can
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope that Obama can calm the fears and tame
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the chaos of an economy headed for the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dumpster. We will also see if he can
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extricate us gracefully from Iraq and
> >> succeed
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in bringing down the terrorist franchises.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hoping,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben Cittadino wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rummy;
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very cute.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And now....before she fades into the
> >> sunset,
> >> > some
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> final
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> words
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin....
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "My concern has been the atrocities there
> >> in
> >> > Darfur
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> and
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> the
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relevance to me
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with that issue as we spoke about Africa
> >> and
> >> > some of
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> the
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> countries
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that were kind of the people succumbing to
> >> > the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> dictators
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> and
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corruption
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of some collapsed governments on the
> >> > continent, the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relevance
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alaska's
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> investment in Darfur with some of our
> >> > permanent fund
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dollars"
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, she concluded, "never, ever did I talk
> >> > about,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> well,
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gee,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it a
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> country or a continent, I just don't know
> >> > about this
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> issue."
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know, I know... her heart is in the right
> >> > place
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> (and so
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few other
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts).
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R22RumRunner wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No Hard Feelings...to the democrats
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The election day is over,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The talking is done.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My party lost, your party won.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So let us be friends,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let arguments pass.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll hug my elephant,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You kiss your ass.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar.
> >> > Showtimes,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theaters,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> movie news &
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more!(
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p://
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> >> > using the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> mailing
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> >> > using the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> mailing
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list go
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> >> using
> >> > the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> mailing
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> >> > the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> mailing
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> list
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> >> the
> >> > mailing
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> list
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >> > mailing
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> list
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> go
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >> > mailing
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> list
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> go
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >> > mailing
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> list go
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >> > mailing list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> go
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >> > mailing list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> go
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> --
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >> > mailing list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> go to
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >> mailing
> >> > list go
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >> to
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> --
> >> > >>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >> mailing
> >> > list go
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >> to
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> >> > list go
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >> to
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> --
> >> > >>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> >> > list go to
> >> > >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> >> > list go to
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>> --
> >> > >>>> Herb Parsons
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> >> list
> >> > go to
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> >> list
> >> > go to
> >> > >>>
> >> > >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >> --
> >> > >> Herb Parsons
> >> > >>
> >> > >> __________________________________________________
> >> > >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >> > go to
> >> > >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >> __________________________________________________
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > > __________________________________________________
> >> > > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >> > > go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > > __________________________________________________
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Herb Parsons
> >> >
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> >> > to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> Herb Parsons
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> >> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Herb Parsons
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
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