[Rhodes22-list] That Black Man is at it again [Political]

Thu Dec 4 12:36:59 EST 2008

I agree with what you said. I can be friends with "morally-lacking" 
folks, I can like them, at times I can even learn to trust them, but 
only so far. And that doesn't include allowing them to teach their 
morals to my kids.

ben wrote:
> Herb,
>
> I agree with everything you've written here.  Great job coming up with some thought-provoking examples.
>
> Let's acknowledge that morally-lacking people can still introduce youths to valuable character-building experiences.  I can think of several examples of this in my life.
>
> Ben S.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Herb Parsons
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:50
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] That Black Man is at it again [Political]
>
> Ben,
>
> Are you then asserting that community and moral values are legitimate 
> areas of concern when HIRING these educators?
>
> In other words, would a public school be within it's rights in denying 
> employment based on those criteria. And if they do, who gets to 
> determine what is acceptable.
>
> Would a teacher whose community values lead him/her to work on a 
> campaign aimed at restricting gun ownership (contrary to constitutional 
> guarantees) be acceptable? Would a teacher whose "community service" 
> includes volunteering at her church's women's shelter?
>
> Would the unmarried teacher that discovers she's pregnant and unmarried 
> be eligible to be terminated? How about the football coach that divorces 
> his 50 year old wife to move in with a 22 year old former student?
> These both represent moral issues.
>
> My answers to the above would be:
> Yes, the anti-gun activists actions would be acceptable, that's his/her 
> right.
> Yes for the women's shelter volunteer. Same reason.
> No, the pregnant teacher should not be terminated. Her being pregnant 
> does not affect her teaching ability.
> No, the coach should not be terminated, his private life should be his.
>
> However; I don't want those last two teaching MY children Moral Values. 
> I don't mind them teaching English or football drills, but I do not want 
> them teaching moral values.
>
>
>
> Ben Cittadino wrote:
>   
>> Ben & Ed;
>>
>> Mr Sowell has touched upon a much debated issue in education. Is "good
>> citizenship" a legitimate educational component for public schools?  Or is
>> this area one best left to parents, churches and others?
>>
>> There has never been much of an argument that such requirements as
>> "community service" or "charitable works", ("corporal works of mercy" if you
>> will), were not legitimate areas to be taught and learned in Catholic or
>> other religious schools; but their place in public elementary, and secondary
>> schools, and in some colleges has long been a subject of very active debate.
>>
>> Some folks, like Sowell seem to take the position that reading, writing, and
>> 'rithmatic and other nuts and bolts areas are all that schools should
>> require, and that "citizenship" etc is too subjective and susceptable to
>> manipulation by "dangerous subversive liberal teachers" to be entrusted to
>> them.
>>
>> I think Sowell is full of baloney here, because education is, in my opinion,
>> more than nuts and bolts, but also community values and mores (sp?).  
>>
>> Teachers must be supervised and curricula approved in these areas just as in
>> science courses, but teaching 1st graders to give to charity is not, in my
>> opinion, a subversive act.
>>
>> Ben C.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> benonvelvetelvis wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> That's one of the dumbest opinions I've ever read.
>>>
>>> Of course schools -- especially universities -- have the right to decide
>>> what to require in order to grant their students a degree.  That's not
>>> denying the students freedom in any way.  Of course I wouldn't have used
>>> my "freedom" as an electrical engineering student to stay all night in
>>> computer labs or to spend my Sundays wiring a circuit board.  But that's
>>> what I had to do to get my degree. 
>>>
>>> He asks " What in the world qualifies teachers and
>>> members of college admissions committees to define what is good for
>>> society
>>> as a whole, or even for the students on whom they impose their arbitrary
>>> notions?"
>>>
>>> Seriously?
>>>
>>> What qualifies te4achers to define what is good for the students?
>>>
>>> So we shouldn't let our teachers judge whether our kids know a material
>>> well enough to avoid additional homework or not?
>>>
>>> Of course not. 
>>>
>>> Ben S.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Tootle
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:14
>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] That Black Man is at it again [Political]
>>>
>>>
>>> Folks, he is at it again:
>>>
>>> Freedom and the Left 
>>>
>>> By Thomas Sowell 
>>>
>>> Most people on the left are not opposed to freedom. They are just in favor
>>> of all sorts of things that are incompatible with freedom. 
>>>
>>> Freedom ultimately means the right of other people to do things that you
>>> do
>>> not approve of. Nazis were free to be Nazis under Hitler. It is only when
>>> you are able to do things that other people don't approve that you are
>>> free. 
>>>
>>> One of the most innocent-sounding examples of the left's many impositions
>>> of
>>> its vision on others is the widespread requirement by schools and by
>>> college
>>> admissions committees that students do "community service." 
>>>
>>> There are high schools across the country from which you cannot graduate,
>>> and colleges where your application for admission will not be accepted,
>>> unless you have engaged in activities arbitrarily defined as "community
>>> service." 
>>>
>>>   Every weekday NewsAndOpinion.com publishes what many in the media and
>>> Washington consider "must-reading". HUNDREDS of columnists and cartoonists
>>> regularly appear. Sign up for the daily update. It's free. Just click
>>> here. 
>>>
>>> The arrogance of commandeering young people's time, instead of leaving
>>> them
>>> and their parents free to decide for themselves how to use that time, is
>>> exceeded only by the arrogance of imposing your own notions as to what is
>>> or
>>> is not a service to the community. 
>>>
>>> Working in a homeless shelter is widely regarded as "community service"—
>>> as
>>> if aiding and abetting vagrancy is necessarily a service, rather than a
>>> disservice, to the community. 
>>>
>>> Is a community better off with more people not working, hanging out on the
>>> streets, aggressively panhandling people on the sidewalks, urinating in
>>> the
>>> street, leaving narcotics needles in the parks where children play? 
>>>
>>> This is just one of the ways in which handing out various kinds of
>>> benefits
>>> to people who have not worked for them breaks the connection between
>>> productivity and reward, as far as they are concerned. 
>>>
>>> But that connection remains as unbreakable as ever for society as a whole.
>>> You can make anything an "entitlement" for individuals and groups but
>>> nothing is an entitlement for society as a whole, not even food or
>>> shelter,
>>> both of which have to be produced by somebody's work or they will not
>>> exist. 
>>>
>>> What "entitlements" for some people mean is forcing other people to work
>>> for
>>> their benefit. As a bumper sticker put it: "Work harder. Millions of
>>> people
>>> on welfare are depending on you." 
>>>
>>> The most fundamental problem, however, is not which particular activities
>>> students are required to engage in under the title of "community service." 
>>>
>>> The most fundamental question is: What in the world qualifies teachers and
>>> members of college admissions committees to define what is good for
>>> society
>>> as a whole, or even for the students on whom they impose their arbitrary
>>> notions? 
>>>
>>> What expertise do they have that justifies overriding other people's
>>> freedom? What do their arbitrary impositions show, except that fools rush
>>> in
>>> where angels fear to tread? 
>>>
>>> What lessons do students get from this, except submission to arbitrary
>>> power? 
>>>
>>> Supposedly students are to get a sense of compassion or noblesse oblige
>>> from
>>> serving others. But this all depends on who defines compassion. In
>>> practice,
>>> it means forcing students to undergo a propaganda experience to make them
>>> receptive to the left's vision of the world. 
>>>
>>> I am sure those who favor "community service" requirements would
>>> understand
>>> the principle behind the objections to this if high school military
>>> exercises were required. 
>>>
>>> Indeed, many of those who promote compulsory "community service"
>>> activities
>>> are bitterly opposed to even voluntary military training in high schools
>>> or
>>> colleges, though many other people regard military training as more of a
>>> contribution to society than feeding people who refuse to work. 
>>>
>>> In other words, people on the left want the right to impose their idea of
>>> what is good for society on others— a right that they vehemently deny to
>>> those whose idea of what is good for society differs from their own. 
>>>
>>> The essence of bigotry is refusing to others the rights that you demand
>>> for
>>> yourself. Such bigotry is inherently incompatible with freedom, even
>>> though
>>> many on the left would be shocked to be considered opposed to freedom. 
>>>
>>> Posted for your understanding.
>>> Ed K
>>> Addendum:"If someone is going down the wrong road, he doesn't need
>>> motivation to speed him up. What he needs is education to turn him
>>> around." 
>>> Jim Rohn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://www.nabble.com/That-Black-Man-is-at-it-again--Political--tp20817269p20817269.html
>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
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>>>     
>>>       
>>   
>>     
>
>   

-- 
Herb Parsons