[Rhodes22-list] political philosophy- "moral equivalence" (There is no fundamental right or wrong?)

Wed Dec 17 10:07:18 EST 2008

Ben & Herb,
Why don't you 2 just meet somewhere & beat the shit out of each other & get
it over with....you'll probably be friends after that.
Jb
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Benjamin Cittadino" <bigben65 at earthlink.net>
To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] political philosophy- "moral equivalence"
(There is no fundamental right or wrong?)


>
> Herb;
>
> New York Labor Law sec. 201d protects political activity of employees of
> private employers as do similar statutes in New Jersey, California,
> Louisiana, Colorado, Connecticut, North Dakota and even South Carolina,
and
> probably afew I haven't thought of.
>
> In South Carolina the law was used by an employee who refused to remove a
> confederate battle flag insignia from his lunch pail to win reinstatement.
> There were some jurisdictional issues on appeal in that case but the law
> stands as protection of even "politically incorrect" speech for private
> employees.
>
> Aside from specific state statutes, the NLRA (National Labor Relations
Act)
> (Federal Law) can be used to protect employees in cases where termination
> was due to discriminatory enforcement of "no political speech" rules in
the
> workplace(as in McCain/Palin bumper stickers allowed-Obama/Biden stickers
> not allowed).
>
> And if that doesn't work the good old common law torts of Interference
with
> prospective economic advantage, infliction of emotional distress, and
> outrage provide the aggrieved employee with lots of ammunition.
>
> And that's just off the top of my head (after a Christmas party and afew
> drinks).
>
> Aren't you glad you live in this greatest country in the world?
>
> Ben C.
>
> PS- Can we talk about something else now?
>
> PPS- Have you checked the thinness of YOUR skin lately? Personal attack?
> Who's looking for excuses to feel insulted now?
>
>
> hparsons wrote:
> >
> > Sure you'll get a response. Cite the law that says differently.
> >
> > Ben Cittadino wrote:
> >> Herb;
> >>
> >> Through all your "wailing and gnashing of teeth" you made an important
> >> admission. You said, it's an employers right to fire someone for the
> >> reason
> >> of "not liking their politics".  I disagree.
> >>
> >> What are the odds that you will reply to this post? Will I get the last
> >> word?
> >>
> >> Ben C.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> hparsons wrote:
> >>
> >>> And Ben, I will repeat.
> >>>
> >>> It's not evil.
> >>>
> >>> It may be stupid
> >>>
> >>> It may be a goofy thing to do (which was why it was a JOKE).
> >>>
> >>> But it's not evil
> >>>
> >>> I believe it was you (but very well could have been someone else), who
> >>> asked if I would quit by job if they sold bumper stickers that made
> >>> jokes about shooting Obama. I said I would. It's a bumper sticker
> >>> sellers right to sell anything they want, and it's my right to not
> >>> purchase from them if I'm a shopper, and not work for them if I'm a
> >>> buyer.
> >>>
> >>> Similarly, it's an employer's right to fire someone for just about
> >>> anything, including not liking their politics. Again, just some I'm
> >>> clear, It would be stupid, and it would be goofy, and I don't think a
> >>> person doing so would be successful in the long run.
> >>>
> >>> But it's not evil.
> >>>
> >>> As for me calling your nonsense "shit", it is. You've chosen to make
> >>> this a personal attack on both Bill, and now myself. You've totally
> >>> mis-characterized what I wrote to fit your neat little (false) bundle,
> >>> and yes, I find that offensive.
> >>>
> >>> Futher, you accuse me of being "dishonest about the subject" when in
> >>> fact I've remained consistent in what I've said (unlike you're "fuuqa
> >>> bs"), and then after accusing me of such, say you're done.
> >>>
> >>> I suspect you are.;  You've been revealed for what you are, pretty
> >>> consistently, and I have no doubt you want no more of it. Go take your
> >>> hypocrisy and attacks elsewhere if you wish, I'm sure the break will
be
> >>> a welcome one.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ben Cittadino wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Herb;
> >>>>
> >>>> Come on now. I'm perfectly happy to have an argument with you, but
you
> >>>> can't
> >>>> be dishonest about the subject and expect people to listen.  The evil
> >>>> we
> >>>> were both talking about had nothing to do with laying people off in
the
> >>>> abstract. It had to do with the POINT of the JOKE which as you very
> >>>> well
> >>>> know was laying people off BECAUSE THEY HAD OBAMA BUMPER STICKERS.
> >>>> That's
> >>>> what made it funny to you and offensive to me. "They wanted change
and
> >>>> I
> >>>> gave it to them". Remember?
> >>>>
> >>>> Apparently I have somehow managed to hurt your feelings, because is
is
> >>>> usually not your style to use vulgar expressions, except when you are
> >>>> feeling attacked, so I must have provoked you in some way to cause
your
> >>>> "do
> >>>> you really believe the **** you write?" line. I do think we ought not
> >>>> to
> >>>> use
> >>>> such profanity on this list and would request that you not do so.
> >>>> Remember,
> >>>> you and I are not the only people who see this stuff.
> >>>>
> >>>> In fact, my posts do reflect my beliefs, and for those who wonder why
I
> >>>> waste my time with you, it is because your beliefs reflect those of a
> >>>> (thankfully small) number of people I have met and dealt with in my
> >>>> life.
> >>>> In
> >>>> short, understanding the likes of you helps me. Thanks for your
> >>>> contribution
> >>>> to my education on human nature.
> >>>>
> >>>> Be well, Herb. Have a truly joyous Holiday Season. I think we're done
> >>>> here.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ben C.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> hparsons wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Sorry Ben, you are under a misconception.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There IS no "evil" in laying off workers. You may choose to call it
> >>>>> "throwing workers out in the street', but the truth of the matter is
> >>>>> it
> >>>>> is a person (or a group of people) choosing to no longer employ an
> >>>>> individual, and that is their RIGHT. It's not an evil, it's not even
> >>>>> wrong, unless they are doing something contrary to what they've
> >>>>> promised.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If they've signed a contract, they should honor it. If they've made
> >>>>> promises, they should honor those. But workers leave (often without
> >>>>> notice), simply because they find something  better, decide not to
> >>>>> work
> >>>>> anymore, whatever. Employers have that same right.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As for the rest of your drivel, you completely mis read what I
wrote.
> >>>>> Might I suggest you go back and look at what I actually said:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "... is not only wrong, but worthy of disdain ..." Is a clue, but
> >>>>> frankly, I think you're clueless. You see what you want to see, and
> >>>>> anyone that doesn't see it is wrong.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And what in the WORLD are you talking about "covering for each
other".
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> said nothing in support of Ed, nor did I speak of Marxism.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do you REALLY believe the shit you write?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ben Cittadino wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Ed and Herb;
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Herb said,
> >>>>>> "You know something Ben, that you totally miss - EVERYONE thinks
> >>>>>> their
> >>>>>> cause is worthy, and EVERYONE thinks those causes 180 degrees
> >>>>>> opposite
> >>>>>> are wrong.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The difference between you, and others of your ilk, is the
arrogance
> >>>>>> that says "Not only is my cause the worthy one, but anyone that
sees
> >>>>>> things differently is not only wrong, but worthy of disdain,
because
> >>>>>> I
> >>>>>> am so obviously right that anyone that differs that strongly from
me
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>> unAmerican and wrong."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ed said,
> >>>>>> "Your  thought of arrogance is correct.  Arrogance is especially
> >>>>>> noticeable
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>> those who have loss touch with ordinary people.  Arrogance is often
> >>>>>> evident
> >>>>>> in those of self appointed elites, many of higher formal
education."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So let me get this straight. A strong opinion as to the fundamental
> >>>>>> "rightness" of one's position on an issue (such as the evil of
> >>>>>> throwing
> >>>>>> workers into the street and out of their jobs, joking or not),
> >>>>>> equates
> >>>>>> with
> >>>>>> "arrogance". That is exactly what you both have said . So since
> >>>>>> EVERYONE
> >>>>>> feels that way (that their cause is right and the other guy's is
> >>>>>> wrong)
> >>>>>> I
> >>>>>> assume there must not be any absolute Right or Wrong according to
> >>>>>> your
> >>>>>> philosophical outlook. Therefor, in your view, all morality is
> >>>>>> relative
> >>>>>> only
> >>>>>> to the person making the judgment. Thus MY morality (fairness to
> >>>>>> workers
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>> disapproval of jokes celebrating the hurting of workers) represents
> >>>>>> arrogance to you Herb and you Ed. My recollection is that both of
you
> >>>>>> claim
> >>>>>> to hold Christian values. Does this mean that your strong opinions
> >>>>>> on,
> >>>>>> say,
> >>>>>> abortion or stem cell research are arrogant? If there is no
> >>>>>> fundamental
> >>>>>> Right or Wrong how are we to make judgments? I would offer that
some
> >>>>>> things
> >>>>>> are Right and some things are Wrong, and that there are Good guys
and
> >>>>>> Bad
> >>>>>> guys, and the difficulty of confronting evil does not excuse us
from
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> duty to do so. So yes, I believe Bill's joke of several weeks ago
was
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>> manifestation of a depraved heart, and was not the least bit funny.
> >>>>>> And
> >>>>>> yes,I think the two of you ought to give more thought to what it
> >>>>>> means
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>> an American and less to the marxists hiding under your beds. I
won't
> >>>>>> hold
> >>>>>> my
> >>>>>> breath waiting for you to engage in any self examination however.
> >>>>>> You're
> >>>>>> too
> >>>>>> busy covering for each other to think for yourselves.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Merry Christmas
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ben C.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tootle wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Rummy,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Somebody that comes on once every 3 or 4 months ought to consider
> >>>>>>> making
> >>>>>>> sure others can clearly i.d. who is making the comments.  I do not
> >>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>> your infallible memory.  However, I do remember various trolls in
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> past.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Study these web sites:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://www.facesoflawsuitabuse.org/facts/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://www.instituteforlegalreform.org/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It is important to remember that one aspect of Marxism is control
of
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> people.  Remember that Marxism seeks to create a 'Dictatorship of
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> Proletariat’.  An important aspect of control is control descent
and
> >>>>>>> free
> >>>>>>> thought.  An element of dictatorship is for the dictator making
his
> >>>>>>> opinions the correct and only view.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> A Marxist dictator will claim that he is speaking for the little
> >>>>>>> guy.
> >>>>>>> There is glossing over the fact that the little guy can speak for
> >>>>>>> himself.
> >>>>>>> He pretends the little guy incapable of self defense when in fact
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>> not true.  He believes only the Marxist knows the truth.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Your thought of arrogance is correct.  Arrogance is especially
> >>>>>>> noticeable
> >>>>>>> in those who have loss touch with ordinary people.  Arrogance is
> >>>>>>> often
> >>>>>>> evident in those of self appointed elites, many of higher formal
> >>>>>>> education.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I recall pictures and news reports of a ceremony in the Roman
> >>>>>>> Catholic
> >>>>>>> Church in Rome where the Pope washes the feet of a group of
> >>>>>>> Cardinals.
> >>>>>>> What is the purpose of that ceremony?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In 1936 Major General J. F. C. Fuller wrote a booklet for the U.
S.
> >>>>>>> Army
> >>>>>>> entitled, Generalship:  Its diseases and Their Cure.  Therein he
> >>>>>>> discussed
> >>>>>>> the arrogance of power and one of its cause as disassociation from
> >>>>>>> reality.  This affliction is evident in the U. S. national media
and
> >>>>>>> its
> >>>>>>> acolytes and some members of this forum.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ed K
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> -- 
> >>>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> -- 
> >>> Herb Parsons
> >>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > -- 
> > Herb Parsons
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> >
>
> -- 
> View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Thomas-Keane-identify-yourself-tp21025141p21047029.html
> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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