[Rhodes22-list] Politics: How 'Bout That Bill Effros?
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Tue Dec 30 14:20:10 EST 2008
Michael,
If I may - I think one of the key phrases in there was "including many
Obama supporters at the highest levels". I think maybe he was trying to
say that folks all the way from nobody's on an obscure (though highly
valuable) sailing list who oppose him, all the way up to high-level
supporters, tried to warn him.
C'mon man, don't complain about chips on shoulders, then go around
putting beams in their place... (and yes, the mixed metaphor was deliberate)
michael meltzer wrote:
> "Brad, and I, and countless others--including many Obama supporters at the
> highest levels--warned the Obama transition team not to permit the
> perception of a policy vacuum to encourage world-wide complication of United
> States foreign policy objectives"
>
> Guys this is a sanity check,, who exactly do you think is reading this
> list????????????????????????
> That also the heart of the problem, I Think, stop trying to "convert each
> other"
> -mjm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:00 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: How 'Bout That Bill Effros?
>
> Wally,
>
> Be careful of falling into propaganda stereotypes. First, anyone who
> disagreed with Obama's candidacy was a racist. Now, it has become
> "obvious you hate".
>
> I don't "hate" Mr. Obama, so my personal feelings toward him are, by
> definition, not obvious.
>
> Brad, and I, and countless others--including many Obama supporters at
> the highest levels--warned the Obama transition team not to permit the
> perception of a policy vacuum to encourage world-wide complication of
> United States foreign policy objectives. Mr. Obama had no compunctions
> about stating his views on foreign policy prior to his election--in fact
> he ran on the platform of repudiating Mr. Bush's foreign policy, and
> telling the whole world he would reverse that policy in virtually every
> area--including Israel.
>
> Mr. Obama has repeatedly violated his "one president at a time" mantra
> when it suits him, most obviously in the domestic economic policy
> sphere, where he is dictating the bills he wants on his desk the moment
> he is inaugurated.
>
> I disagree with Mr. Buchanan on many many things, but an "idiot" he is
> not. He is smart, principled, consistent, and a much better scholar of
> American history than I, and most other Americans.
>
> I do now, and have long agreed with his consistent position that
> supporting Israeli attacks on civilian populations comports with neither
> our goals nor our values.
>
> Obama's silence on this matter at this time will hurt him and us
> strategically and morally. We have allowed Israeli politics to trump
> our own national interests. One could easily interpret Team Obama's
> silence in the same way we interpreted Team Bush's silence on the
> aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
>
> Lives are being lost right now. Good will is being flushed down the
> toilet. The voices of peace and reconciliation are being drowned out
> both by the belligerence of those on the right, and the silence of those
> on the left.
>
> Winning elections is not supposed to be the end of imposing your values
> on the political sphere, it is supposed to be the beginning.
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
>
>
> TN Rhodey wrote:
>
>> Bill, I suppose he could say that but shouldn't Bush speak for the US? I
>>
> am
>
>> not sure if I agree with Pat. Bush's mouth piece has come out in support
>>
> of
>
>> the action. For Obama to come out against would be counter productive. It
>>
> is
>
>> obvious you hate O. Your advice seems foolish. I would advise him the
>>
> exact
>
>> opposite.
>>
>> I think Pat B is an idiot.
>>
>> Wally
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Wally,
>>>
>>> Here is what Pat Buchanan has to say on this issue:
>>>
>>> "While the United States must support Israel's right to defend her towns
>>> and to strike bases from which Israelis are being attacked, Obama should
>>> denounce the collective punishment of 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza,
>>> by Israel's cutting off their electricity in the dead of winter and
>>> denying them the food and medicine many need to survive.
>>>
>>> For us to remain silent in the face of this comports neither with our
>>> interests or our values. Israel's policy of withholding from the weak
>>> and innocent of Gaza, women and children, the necessities of life, to
>>> punish the guilty who rule at the point of a gun, is a policy that Obama
>>> should declare the United States will no longer support with tax
>>>
> dollars."
>
>>> To paraphrase another part of the same article, "Obama can't just sit
>>> mute at the table like the 'dummy' in a game of bridge."
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bill, What should Obama be doing? Should he fly to Crawford and join
>>>>
> Bush
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> on
>>>
>>>
>>>> vacation? Perhaps go Grouse hunting with Dick C.? Heck what should Bush
>>>>
>>>>
>>> do?
>>>
>>>
>>>> The only control we have over Israel is money. They will do as they
>>>>
>>>>
>>> please.
>>>
>>>
>>>> If Hanas attacks they will respond. Rightly so. It would be hard fo use
>>>>
>>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>
>>>> be critical of this considering our attack on Iraq.
>>>>
>>>> I think Israel is itching to fight and if Hamas continues to provoke
>>>>
> they
>
>>>> will get pounded even worse. The last Isreali ops in Lebanon did not
>>>>
> have
>
>>>> the normal kick ass results. I think both Hamas and Hezbollah were
>>>> emboldened by the poor Israeli tactics.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect Israel will take care of any nuke plants in Iran long before
>>>>
> we
>
>>>> feel the urge.
>>>>
>>>> Do you see it different?
>>>>
>>>> Wally
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>
>>>>> 150 people who were alive yesterday morning are dead this morning
>>>>> because Israel massively attacked Gaza. That includes women and
>>>>> children because the Israeli's attacked targets at a time that ensured
>>>>> civilian casualties.
>>>>>
>>>>> They attacked when no one in this country was on the job. Right now we
>>>>> have no President at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obama is on both sides of this issue--where are you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He is not President of USA yet. You want him stirring the pot like
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Captain
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Rummy? He said that there is only one President at a time. Calm
>>>>>>
> down,
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> enjoy the holidays. While the liquor stores are still open go get a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> bottle
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> of Mt. Gay Rum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>> addendum from where there is a lot of snow:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Think of yourself as on the threshold of unparalleded sucess. A
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> whole,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> clear, glorious life lies before you. Achieve! Achieve! - Andrew
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Carnegie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> (borrowed from from the cover of the Pennsylvania Travel Guide.)( I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> would
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> have expected some of the native Pennsylvanians on this forum to have
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> quoted
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> that. Where is Ben C, Frone, John S., et al????)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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--
Herb Parsons
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