[Rhodes22-list] Marines & Berkeley - More Political Scum - A reply

[Brad Haslett]

Ed,

It may be too late for Europe but perhaps not for us. PC has run amok!
"Youths" burn cars and incite riots in Paris but the newspapers won't
mention that they are 99% Muslims. If you take the position in this country
that you don't think it a good idea to upset 10,000 years of tradition that
marriage is between opposite sexes, you're labeled 'homophobic'. My
experience is that the people who preach tolerance the most are in fact the
most intolerant.  I'm including an article on what gays are facing in Europe
today.  I especially detest those who would rather see third world countries
remain 'victims' and stuck in the 19th Century instead of joining the modern
world.  Who's being insensitive here?

Brad

------------------------

*by Bruce Bawer <http://www.brucebawer.com/>*

One day last month, I gave a talk in Rome about how the supposedly liberal
ideology of multiculturalism has made possible the spread in Europe of the
highly illiberal ideology of fundamentalist Islam, with all its brutality
and – among other things – violent homophobia. When I returned to my hotel,
I phoned my partner back home in Oslo only to learn that moments earlier he
had been confronted at a bus stop by two Muslim youths, one of whom had
asked if he was gay, started to pull out a knife, then kicked him as he got
on the bus, which had pulled up at just the right moment. If the bus hadn't
come when it did, the encounter could have been much worse.

Not very long ago, Oslo was an icy Shangri-la of Scandinavian
self-discipline, governability, and respect for the law. But in recent
years, there have been grim changes, including a rise in gay-bashings. The
summer of 2006 saw an unprecedented wave of them. The culprits, very
disproportionately, are young Muslim men.

It's not just Oslo, of course. The problem afflicts most of Western
Europe<javascript:void(0)>.
And anecdotal evidence suggests that such crimes are dramatically
underreported. My own partner chose not to report his assault. I urged him
to, but he protested that it wouldn't make any difference. He was probably
right.

The reason for the rise in gay bashings in Europe is clear – and it's the
same reason for the rise in rape. As the number of Muslims in Europe grows,
and as the proportion of those Muslims who were born and bred in Europe also
grows, many Muslim men are more inclined to see Europe as a part of the *
umma* (or Muslim world), to believe that they have the right and duty to
enforce sharia law in the cities where they live, and to recognize that any
aggression on their part will likely go unpunished. Such men need not be
actively religious in order to feel that they have *carte blanche* to
assault openly gay men and non-submissive women, whose freedom to live their
lives as they wish is among the most conspicuous symbols of the West's
defiance of holy law.

Multiculturalists can't face all this. So it is that even when there are
brutal gay-bashings, few journalists write about them; of those who do, few
mention that the perpetrators are Muslims; and those who do mention it take
the line that these perpetrators are lashing out in desperate response to
their own oppression.

Never mind that Europe, far from oppressing Muslims, offers personal
freedoms and welfare-state benefits far beyond those available in any Muslim
country. Never mind that few if any Europeans – certainly not gay
people<javascript:void(0)>– are doing any Muslim-bashing. Never mind
that Hindu and Buddhist
immigrants, or immigrants from South America <javascript:void(0)> or China,
feel no compulsion to react violently against their "oppression." No,
assaults by Muslims always have to be construed as defensive – as
expressions not of power but of weakness, not of aggression but of
helplessness. To suggest that the culprits, far from being fragile,
sensitive flowers who've been pushed over the line by something *we* did,
are in fact bullies driven by an overweening sense of superiority and a
deep-seated malice – both of which they've been carefully taught at home, at
school, and, yes, in the mosque – is *verboten*.

One familiar response is: "Well, non-Muslims beat up gays, too!" Yep –
indeed they do. Yet for a while there, in much of Western Europe,
homosexuality was on its way to being a non-issue. In Amsterdam in the late
1990s, I was delightfully surprised to discover that when groups of straight
teenage boys passed gay couples in the streets, they *just walked
past*without any reaction whatsoever. The sight of gay people didn't
upset,
threaten, amuse, or confuse them; the familiar, insecure urge to respond to
open homosexuality with some kind of distancing, disdainful word or gesture
– and thereby affirm to one another, and to themselves, their own
heterosexual credentials – was simply not part of those kids' makeup. For
me, it was a remarkable experience. Amsterdam then seemed to me the leading
edge of a new wave in the progress of human civilization.

Alas, it is now very clearly the opposite. The number of reported
gay-bashings in Amsterdam now climbs steadily year by year. Nearly half
Muslim, the city is a front in the struggle between democracy and sharia,
under which, lest it be forgotten, homosexuality can be a capital offense.
Things have gotten so bad there that even on the part of the exceedingly
politically correct, there has been a degree of acknowledgment that *
something* has changed, and is still changing. After a group of Amsterdam
Muslims beat up Chris Crain, the six-foot-five editor of the gay newspaper *The
Washington Blade*, in May 2005, the head of the Netherlands' leading
gay-rights organization admitted that tolerance of gay people in that city
was "slipping away like sand through the fingers" and that "gays and
lesbians are less willing to walk hand-in-hand because they might be beaten
up."

I can testify that this is true. Yet politicians, journalists, activists,
and others who cling to the multicultural mindset can't bring themselves to
acknowledge the Islamic foundations of all this bullying. Instead, they
offer the same kind of nonsense that was served up by a Human Rights Watch
spokesman after the Chris Crain incident. "There's still an extraordinary
degree <javascript:void(0)> of racism in Dutch society <javascript:void(0)>,"
that spokesman said. "Gays often become the victims of this when immigrants
retaliate for the inequities they have to suffer."

So powerful is the determination to turn away from the plain and simple
truth that Amsterdam mayor Job Cohen recently commissioned a study by the
University of Amsterdam. Its purpose? To try to figure out what motives
underlie the increase in attacks on gay men and lesbians by Dutch-Moroccan
men in Amsterdam. "Some researchers," wrote a reporter for UPI, "believe
they [Muslim gay-bashers] lashed out at local gays after feeling stigmatized
by Dutch society." In other words, as the straight-talking Norwegian
immigration expert Inger-Lise Lien put it sardonically when I showed her the
article, "it's the assailant who's the real victim."

As for Cohen, he would appear to be operating out of pure cynicism. This is
the same mayor, after all, who has called for the Netherlands to reach some
"accommodation" with its male Muslim residents that would allow them to
oppress their wives, sisters, and daughters – though he hasn't been entirely
clear as to just where he would draw the line. (Beatings? Rape? Forced
marriage? Genital mutilation? Honor killing?) Given such an extraordinary
record of pragmatism, it seems safe to assume that Cohen would also be more
than willing, in the name of peace in our time, to turn away with respectful
discretion when Muslim gangs beat the living daylights out of the occasional
*flikker*.

In any event, another mayor, London's Ken Livingstone, has already blazed
that trail. In 2004, playing host to Sunni scholar Yusuf al-Qaradawi, who
has supported the execution of gay people, Livingstone hailed him as a
"progressive." When gay activists called him on this ridiculous assertion,
Livingstone retaliated by putting out a dissertation-length report
whitewashing Qaradawi and smearing his critics as racists.

Even as Europeans in positions of authority persist in denying the plain
facts about Muslim attitudes toward gay people, leading European Muslims
keep reminding us what those attitudes are. Take Norway's Asghar Ali, deputy
chairman of Norway's Islamic Council. Ali, who also holds high-ranking
positions in Norway's ruling Labor Party and in the powerful Norwegian
Confederation of Trade Unions, and has worked in an advisory capacity on the
government's Equality and Anti-Discrimination Ombud, would seem to be a
model of successful assimilation. Yet at a November 2007 debate arranged by
the gay student organization at the University of Oslo, he refused to reject
the death penalty <javascript:void(0)> for gays. When asked about this
issue, the head of the Islamic Council, Senaid Kobilica, said that Norwegian
Muslims needed to discuss it and consult religious authorities. "While this
process is underway," Kobilica said, "I ask for understanding and respect
for the fact that I am unable to comment, either about my personal position
or about the position of the Islamic Council of Norway." Understanding and
respect, that is, for his unwillingness to say flat out that he did not
believe gay people should be murdered.

Perhaps younger, well educated Muslims are more enlightened? Another
participant in the University of Oslo debate, Muslim Student Association
head Usman Rana, said that he personally didn't support making homosexuality
a capital crime, but that he would not criticize other countries' practices.
"There is unfortunately a tendency in Norway to degrade religious people,"
Rana told *Universitas*, the college newspaper. "It is due to an extreme
secularism among the Norwegian public. I fervently hope that our
participation [in the debate on the death penalty for gays] helps to create
a more nuanced view of Islam. The Norwegian public needs to become more
liberal." Once again, it's the assailants – or, in this case, the would-be
executioners – who are the real victims.

The Norwegian public may not yet be "liberal" enough to suit Rana, but the
European establishment has been exceedingly so. Though Kobilica's refusal to
condemn the execution of gays caused a brief stir in the media, the
Norwegian government has made no move to withdraw the Islamic Council's
annual subsidy of half a million kroner (about $100,000). Government
officials and journalists continue to treat the council with deference, to
view it as the Voice of Muslims, and to pretend that it is a voice of
moderation. Once the flap over executing gays died down, moreover,
politicians and others returned soon enough to the mantra about Islam being
a religion of peace.

It's very clear what's going on here – and where it's all headed. Europe is
on its way down the road of Islamization, and it's reached a point along
that road at which gay people's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness is being directly challenged, both by knife-wielding bullies on
the street and by taxpayer-funded thugs whose organizations already enjoy
quasi-governmental authority. Sharia law may still be an alien concept to
some Westerners, but it's staring gay Europeans right in the face – and
pointing toward a chilling future for all free people. Pim Fortuyn saw all
this coming years ago; most of today's European leaders still refuse to see
it even though it's right before their eyes.


Bruce Bawer's book While Europe
Slept<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0767920058/pajamasmedia-20>is
now in paperback. His website is at
www.brucebawer.com.
 ———

On Feb 3, 2008 7:19 AM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net> wrote:

>
> Brad:
>
> I know that Rik will blast his horn that I am rude, and others will say
> crude, inconsiderate, etc.  However, in reading the prior discussion I can
> have to say that John's line of reasoning made me think of the following
> quote off the internet:
>
> "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical,
> liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
> which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up
> a
> turd by the clean end."
>
> Ed K
> Greenville, SC, USA
>
>
>
>
> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
> >
> > Robert,
> >
> > Attached is a letter to the Berkeley newspaper from the Captain who runs
> > the
> > USMC office there.  Written in October, it details the reasons for
> > locating
> > there.  Berkeley is the worst of the Bay Area but by no means the only
> > lunatic city.  My son gets treated shabbily in Alameda while wearing a
> > USCG
> > uniform.  I respect people's feelings against war in general and this
> war
> > in
> > particular, though I disagree with their reasoning, but to treat anyone
> > wearing the uniform badly is just plain wrong.  These CodePinkers are
> > hopelessly stuck in the 60's and their behaviour now is just as
> disgusting
> > as it was in their youth. They have no more legal right to harass a
> > recruiting office than they do an insurance office or flower shop.  The
> > city
> > council of Berkeley is obviously aiding and abetting these loons and
> they
> > should be held accountable, ie, cut off federal funding to Berkeley.
> > Perhaps then the 'sane and rational' citizens of Berkeley, assuming
> there
> > are some, will throw the bums out or suffer the consequences of their
> > decisions.
> >
> > Brad
> >
> > PS - Kudos to your grandson and the USMC!
> >
> > ---------------------
> > Commentary: An Open Letter to Code Pink * By Richard Lund (10-02-07) *
> >
> >
> > While the protest that you staged in front of my office on Wednesday,
> > Sept.
> > 26th, was an exercise of your constitutional rights, the messages that
> you
> > left behind were insulting, untrue, and ultimately misdirected.
> > Additionally, from the comments quoted in the Berkeley Daily Planet
> > article,
> > it is clear that you have no idea what it is that I do here. Given that
> I
> > was unaware of your planned protest, I was unable to contest your claims
> > in
> > person, so I will therefore address them here.
> >
> > First, a little bit about who I am: I am a Marine captain with over
> eight
> > years of service as a commissioned officer. I flew transport helicopters
> > for
> > most of my time in the Marine Corps before requesting orders to come
> here.
> > Currently, I am the officer selection officer for the northern Bay Area.
> > My
> > job is to recruit, interview, screen, and evaluate college students and
> > college graduates that show an interest in becoming officers in the
> Marine
> > Corps. Once they've committed to pursuing this program, I help them
> apply,
> > and if selected, I help them prepare for the rigors of Officer Candidate
> > School and for the challenges of life as a Marine officer. To be
> eligible
> > for my programs, you have to be either a full-time college student or a
> > college graduate. I don't pull anyone out of school, and high school
> > students are not eligible.
> >
> > I moved my office to Berkeley in December of last year. Previously, it
> was
> > located in an old federal building in Alameda. That building was due to
> be
> > torn down and I had to find a new location. I choose our new site
> because
> > of
> > its proximity to UC Berkeley and to the BART station. Most of the
> > candidates
> > in my program either go to Cal or to one of the schools in San
> Francisco,
> > the East Bay, or the North Bay. Logistically, the Shattuck Square
> location
> > was the most convenient for them.
> >
> > Next, you claim that I lie. I have never, and will never, lie to any
> > individual that shows an interest in my programs. I am upfront with
> > everything that is involved at every step of the way and I go out of my
> > way
> > to ensure that they know what to expect when they apply. I tell them
> that
> > this is not an easy path. I tell them that leading Marines requires a
> > great
> > deal of self-sacrifice. I tell them that, should they succeed in their
> > quest
> > to become a Marine officer, they will almost certainly go to Iraq. In
> the
> > future, if you plan to attack my integrity, please have the courtesy to
> > explain to me specifically the instances in which you think that I lied.
> >
> > Next, scrawled across the doorway to my office, you wrote, "Recruiters
> are
> > Traitors." Please explain this one. How exactly am I a traitor? Was I a
> > traitor when I joined the Marine Corps all those years ago? Is every
> > Marine,
> > therefore, a traitor? Was I a traitor during my two stints in Iraq? Was
> I
> > a
> > traitor when I was delivering humanitarian aid to the victims of the
> > tsunami
> > in Sumatra? Or do you only consider me a traitor while I am on this job?
> > The
> > fact is, recruitment is and always has been a part of maintaining any
> > military organization. In fact, recruitment is a necessity of any large
> > organization. Large corporations have employees that recruit full-time.
> > Even
> > you, I'm sure, must expend some effort to recruit for Code Pink. So
> what,
> > exactly, is it that makes me a traitor?
> >
> > The fact is this: any independent nation must maintain a military (or be
> > allied with those who do) to ensure the safety and security of its
> > citizens.
> > Regardless of what your opinions are of the current administration or
> the
> > current conflict in Iraq, the U.S. military will be needed again in the
> > future. If your counter-recruitment efforts are ultimately successful,
> who
> > will defend us if we are directly attacked again as we were at Pearl
> > Harbor?
> > Who would respond if a future terrorist attack targets the Golden Gate
> > Bridge, the BART system, or the UC Berkeley clock tower? And, to address
> > the
> > most hypocritical stance that your organization takes on its website,
> > where
> > would the peace keeping force come from that you advocate sending to
> > Darfur?
> >
> > Finally, I believe that your efforts in protesting my office are
> > misdirected. I agree that your stated goals of peace and social justice
> > are
> > worthy ones. War is a terrible thing that should only be undertaken in
> the
> > most dire, extreme, and necessary of circumstances. However, war is made
> > by
> > politicians. The conflict in Iraq was ordered by the president and
> > authorized by Congress. They are the ones who have the power to change
> the
> > policy in Iraq, not members of the military. We execute policy to the
> best
> > of our ability and to the best of our human capacity. Protesting in
> front
> > of
> > my office may be an easy way to get your organization in the headlines
> of
> > local papers, but it doesn't further any of your stated goals.
> >
> > To conclude, I don't consider myself a "recruiter." I am a Marine who
> > happens to be on recruiting duty. As such, I conduct myself in
> accordance
> > with our core values of honor, courage, and commitment. I will never
> > sacrifice my honor by lying to anyone that walks into my office. I will
> > never forsake the courage that it takes to restrain myself in the face
> of
> > insulting and libelous labels like liar and traitor. And, most
> > importantly,
> > I will never waver from my commitment to helping individuals who desire
> to
> > serve their country as officers in the Marine Corps.
> >
> >
> >
> > Captain Richard Lund is the United States Marine Corps' officer
> selection
> > officer for the northern Bay Area.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 2, 2008 9:47 PM, Robert Skinner <robert at squirrelhaven.com> wrote:
> >
> >> As my grandson said on his way to his third
> >> tour in Iraq as a LtCol USMC, "Just another
> >> day at the office."
> >>
> >> I hope that the USMC takes no official notice
> >> of this foolishness.
> >>
> >> /Robert
> >> ----------------------------------------------
> >> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Robert,
> >> >
> >> > Here's an update on Berkeley-
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/02/BALTUQKOE.DTL
> >> >
> >> > I posted the link rather than the text so you can see the photos.
> >> > Yesterday, protesters chained themselves to the door of the Marine
> >> > recruiting office for 7 and 1/2 HOURS!  Since when is it legal to
> close
> >> down
> >> > a business and where are the Berkeley police for 7 and 1/2 hours?
> >> > Congresswoman Lee protested Sen. Demints proposal to de-fund Berkeley
> >> by
> >> > saying it wasn't right to deprive children of lunches and citizens of
> >> first
> >> > responders.  I'd say these people don't need to be having children
> and
> >> if it
> >> > takes over 7 hours for the police to respond, they don't need them
> >> either.
> >> >
> >> > Brad
> >> >
> >> > On Jan 31, 2008 6:59 PM, Robert Skinner <robert at squirrelhaven.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Sorry to hear about this stupidity - but it looks as
> >> > > though the Leathernecks picked a poor beachhead.
> >> > >
> >> > > Any town that does not welcome the Marines does not
> >> > > deserve them.  What kind of dweeb confuses the loyal
> >> > > Marines with the leadership and policies that they are
> >> > > sworn to follow?
> >> > >
> >> > > I, for one, am damned glad to have a fellow Marine
> >> > > next to me under any circumstances, whether or not we
> >> > > share political views.
> >> > >
> >> > > /Robert
> >> > >
> >> > > -------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >
> >> > > Brad Haslett wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Boys and girls, here is a perfect opportunity to solve our energy
> >> > > problem.
> >> > > > I say we take spent nuclear fuel and dump it right smack in the
> >> center
> >> > > of
> >> > > > Berkeley.  That, or pull every last federal dollar out of that
> scum
> >> > > infested
> >> > > > city.  Brad
> >> > > >
> >> > > > ----------------------------
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Berkeley council tells Marines to leave
> >> > > > By Doug Oakley
> >> > > >
> >> > > > STAFF WRITER
> >> > > > Article Launched: 01/30/2008 01:48:16 PM PST
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hey-hey, ho-ho, the Marines in Berkeley have got to go.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > That's the message from the Berkeley City Council, which voted
> 8-1
> >> > > Tuesday
> >> > > > night to tell the U.S. Marines that its Shattuck Avenue
> recruiting
> >> > > station
> >> > > > "is not welcome in the city, and if recruiters choose to stay,
> they
> >> do
> >> > > so as
> >> > > > uninvited and unwelcome intruders."
> >> > > >
> >> > > > In addition, the council voted to explore enforcing its law
> >> prohibiting
> >> > > > discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation against the
> >> Marines
> >> > > > because of the military's don't ask, don't tell policy. And it
> >> > > officially
> >> > > > encouraged the women's peace group Code Pink to impede the work
> of
> >> the
> >> > > > Marines in the city by protesting in front of the station.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > In a separate item, the council voted 8-1 to give Code Pink a
> >> designated
> >> > > > parking space in front of the recruiting station once a week for
> >> six
> >> > > months
> >> > > > and a free sound permit for protesting once a week from noon to 4
> >> p.m.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Councilman Gordon Wozniak opposed both items.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The Marines have been in Berkeley for a little more than a year,
> >> having
> >> > > > moved from Alameda in December of 2006. For about the past four
> >> months,
> >> > > Code
> >> > > > Pink has been protesting in front of the station.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > "I believe in the Code Pink cause. The Marines don't belong here,
> >> they
> >> > > > shouldn't have come here, and they should leave," said Berkeley
> >> Mayor
> >> > > Tom
> >> > > > Bates after votes were cast.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > A Marines representative did not respond to requests for comment.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The resolution telling the Marines they are unwelcome and
> directing
> >> the
> >> > > city
> >> > > > attorney to explore
> >> > > > ------------------------------
> >> > > > ------------------------------
> >> > > > issues of sexual orientation discrimination was brought to the
> >> council
> >> > > by
> >> > > > the city's Peace and Justice commission.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The recommendation to give Code Pink a parking space for
> protesting
> >> and
> >> > > a
> >> > > > free sound permit was brought by council members Linda Maio and
> Max
> >> > > > Anderson.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Code Pink on Wednesday started circulating petitions to put a
> >> measure on
> >> > > the
> >> > > > November ballot in Berkeley that would make it more difficult to
> >> open
> >> > > > military recruiting offices near homes, parks, schools, churches
> >> > > libraries
> >> > > > or health clinics. The group needs 5,000 signatures to make the
> >> ballot.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Even though the council items passed, not everyone is happy with
> >> the
> >> > > work of
> >> > > > Code Pink. Some employees and owners of businesses near the
> Marines
> >> > > office
> >> > > > have had enough of the group and its protests.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > "My husband's business is right upstairs, and this (protesting)
> is
> >> > > bordering
> >> > > > on harassment," Dori Schmidt told the council. "I hope this
> stops."
> >> > > >
> >> > > > An employee of a nearby business who asked not to be identified
> >> said
> >> > > > Wednesday the elderly Code Pink protesters are aggressive, take
> up
> >> > > parking
> >> > > > spaces, block the sidewalk with their yoga moves, smoke in the
> >> doorways,
> >> > > and
> >> > > > are noisy.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > "Most of the people around here think they're a joke," the woman
> >> said.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Wozniak said he was opposed to giving Code Pink a parking space
> >> because
> >> > > it
> >> > > > favors free speech rights of one group over another.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > "There's a line between protesting and harassing, and that
> concerns
> >> me,"
> >> > > > Wozniak said. "It looks like we are showing favoritism. We have
> to
> >> > > respect
> >> > > > the other side, and not abuse their rights. This is not good
> >> policy."
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Ninety-year-old Fran Rachel, a Code Pink protester who spoke at
> the
> >> > > council
> >> > > > meeting, said the group's request for a parking space and noise
> >> permit
> >> > > was
> >> > > > especially important because the Marines are recruiting soldiers
> >> who
> >> may
> >> > > die
> >> > > > in an unjust war.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > "This is very serious," Rachel said. "This isn't a game; it's
> mass
> >> > > murder.
> >> > > > There's a sickness of silence of people not speaking out against
> >> the
> >> > > war. We
> >> > > > have to do this."
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Anderson, a former Marine who said he was "drummed out" of the
> >> corps
> >> > > when he
> >> > > > took a stand against the Vietnam War, said he'd love to see the
> >> Marines
> >> > > high
> >> > > > tale it out of town.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > "We are confronted with an organization that can spend billions
> of
> >> > > dollars
> >> > > > on propaganda," Anderson said. "This is not Okinawa here; we're
> >> involved
> >> > > in
> >> > > > a naked act of aggression. If we can provide a space for ordinary
> >> people
> >> > > to
> >> > > > express themselves against this kind of barbarity, then we should
> >> be
> >> > > doing
> >> > > > it."
> >> > > >
> >> > > > E-mail Doug Oakley at doakley at bayareanewsgroup.com
> >> > > > __________________________________________________
> >> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Robert Skinner  "Squirrel Haven"
> >> > > Gorham, Maine         04038-1331
> >> > > s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."
> >> > > __________________________________________________
> >> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >> --
> >> Robert Skinner  "Squirrel Haven"
> >> Gorham, Maine         04038-1331
> >> s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."
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> >>
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