[Rhodes22-list] What Should I Have Done Differently?

Robert Skinner robert at squirrelhaven.com
Wed Feb 20 17:06:06 EST 2008 

Rik, et al.

As I don't like to beat up my sails, I often
reef the main (if it is not already reefed) 
to reduce the flapping that usually 
accompanies a luffing sail in a stiff 
breeze.

/Robert
-------------------------------------------------
Rik Sandberg wrote:
> 
> Herb,
> 
> Nope. Just let the main take care of itself. It will fill and luff
> continually, on it's own, the whole while you are hove to.
> 
> Rik
> 
> There is no magic to Free Enterprise. It is the best way to create wealth, but it does not prevent people from making mistakes. Capitalism offers people a chance to make money. But it also offers them a chance to make fools of themselves. Free Enterprise – like the rest of life – merely permits nature to take her course.....Bill Bonner
> 
> Herb Parsons wrote:
> > Yeah, I always thought it stopped abruptly, but I don't do anything more
> > with the main, I just let it luff. Is there something I'm missing?
> >
> > Hank wrote:
> >
> >> The video looked like it stopped a minute or two too soon.  It didn't show
> >> what to do with the main after you lash the tiller.
> >>
> >> Hank
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/20/08, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> For anyone who didn't have the "light bulb go on", here are two very
> >>> good links on the subject. The first is a video, and second is a more
> >>> detailed description of the procedure, and what it does (really geared
> >>> to open water sailing). On the second link, you have to scroll about 2/3
> >>> the way down for the specifics on heaving-to.
> >>>
> >>> One interesting side note on heaving-to under heavy weather conditions -
> >>> and please note, this is just what I was told, I've not had the
> >>> opporunity to try this in a storm. Supposedly, heaving-to in a storm not
> >>> only gives you a break from sailing the weather, it also is calms the
> >>> waves hitting the boat. The theory is that because a hove-to boat is
> >>> actually going downwind "sideways", the waterflow under the hull lessens
> >>> the impact of the waves on the windward side of the hull.
> >>>
> >>> I waited two years before I actually tried heaving-to because I 1)
> >>> didn't believe it would work and 2) figured if it DID work, every sailor
> >>> I knew would know how to do it (only one that knew actually did). It was
> >>> when I saw the video below that I finally believed it would actually
> >>> work. I've made up my mind that the next time a decent storm blows
> >>> through, even if I'm just on the lake, I'm going to test out the
> >>> "calming the waters" idea.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.videos.sailingcourse.com/heaving_to_wmv1.htm
> >>>
> >>> http://www.boats.com/news-reviews/articledetail.html?lid=1284
> >>>
> >>> Caesar Paul wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Jack,
> >>>>
> >>>> I felt the same way about Slim's explanation of the "heave to"
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> procedure.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> The light bulb did go on Slim, thats an accomplishment.
> >>>>
> >>>> Caesar
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>> From: Jack Chirch <jchirch at hughes.net>
> >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:31:58 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] What Should I Have Done Differently?
> >>>>
> >>>> Slim -
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for the clear explanation.  I've passed a couple of dinghy
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> sailing
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> courses, and spent a few days on friends' boats--even sailed my Rhodes
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> once,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> and had a vague idea how to accomplish this, but your step-through makes
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> it
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> much clearer.  Think I may paste it under the bill of my cap!
> >>>>
> >>>> Jack
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Steven Alm
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:37 AM
> >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] What Should I Have Done Differently?
> >>>>
> >>>> Jack,
> >>>>
> >>>> Re heaving to:  It's considered one of the points of sail even though
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> idea is to stop sailing and drift, but without dropping your sails and
> >>>> without the chaos of luffing.  It's very easy to do and I use it all the
> >>>> time whenever I need to use the head or go below for any reason like
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> making
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> a snack, making a repair or just taking a break.  And in context of this
> >>>> thread, it's a great way to make changes in your sail plan--especially
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> if
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> your single-handing.
> >>>>
> >>>> Get yourself on a close reach and then plan to come about.  Come about
> >>>> through the wind like usual but don't let the jib sheet go after you
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> come
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> about.  Let the main tack across like usual.  Now ease the main sheet
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> ease the jib sheet some but don't release it.  This is called
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> "back-winding
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> the main."  So now your jib is full and very baggy and your main is
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> luffing
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> a little for a moment then stops.  You put the helm to the lee.  In
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> other
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> words the tiller and the boom are approximately perpendicular.  Lock the
> >>>> tiller in place and now you are hands free.  The boat will yaw back and
> >>>> forth some but mostly beam to the wind and slowly drifting downwind.
> >>>> Centerboard down will slow the drift.
> >>>>
> >>>> To reef in the jib, you first ease out its (windward) sheet and then
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> take in
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> the reefing line.  If you need to reef in the main, you should heave to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> on a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> port tack so the boom is off to starboard.  To get going all you have to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> do
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> is release the windward sheet and take it in on the other side just like
> >>>> completing your tack.  Adjust both sheets as desired and you're under
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> way
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> immediately.
> >>>>
> >>>> About those four horn cleats on the boom; I always tie the inhaul line
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> on
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> the first cleat, most forward and the outhaul line on the second cleat.
> >>>> That way both lines are close together and I don't have to lean way out
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> get to the out haul and have the same problem with that as Mark
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> describes.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> The slack tails of those two lines are easily dealt with in many
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> ways.  Get
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> creative.
> >>>>
> >>>> Heaving to is also how I reroute my jib sheets to the inboard position
> >>>> should I need to do that.  First, heave to in the way described
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> above.  Once
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> you're hoven (hiven? heaved? Having hove?)  reroute the lee sheet (the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> slack
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> one.)  Now cut loose the windward sheet and get under way.  Pick up a
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> little
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> speed and tack across and heave to on the other side and reroute the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> other
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> sheet.  With some practice, this double heave to is sort of like ballet
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> or
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> skiing royal christies.
> >>>>
> >>>> Heaving to is also one of the tactics of storm survival but since I'm a
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> lake
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> sailor, that'd put me up on the lee shore in no time.  Best git on home.
> >>>>
> >>>> Slim
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Feb 18, 2008 11:49 PM, David Bradley <dwbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Mark, you've probably gotten your fill of advice by now.  One thing I
> >>>>> would add...  once I'm clear of my slip I disconnect the steering
> >>>>> mechanism from tiller to motor while still motoring.  Does your
> >>>>> outboard have a pin to lock it in position?  The tiller will be 300%
> >>>>> lighter in your hand, and you can then unfurl the sails, kill the
> >>>>> motor and be underway, raising the motor when you're ready.  I use the
> >>>>> steering mechanism only when I'm in a tight area.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dave
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Feb 18, 2008 12:55 PM,  <mputnam1 at aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello everyone,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am hoping you can help me learn from my sailing experience today.
> >>>>>> I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> know I must have done some things wrong, but maybe I did a few things
> >>>>> right because I was able to get back to the harbor safely in the end.
> >>>>> Let me describe what happened and then ask a few questions.  And let
> >>>>> me apologize in advance for not getting all my nautical terms right 

> >>>>> I'll do the best I can.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> My R-22 is kept at the Washington Sailing Marina on the Potomac
> >>>>>> River,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> just across the river from DC.  The weather this morning was
> >>>>> unseasonably warm with winds in the 15-20 knot range with gusts up to
> >>>>> 29, according to the coast guard weather report.  I knew a cold front
> >>>>> was approaching and that it would get windier as the day went on, but
> >>>>> it was around 11am and while I was a little uncertain about going out,
> >>>>> it was one of those rare weekdays when my lack of work intersected
> >>>>> with wind on the water.  So I decided to try and see if I could handle
> >>>>> it and learn something at the same time.  I had thought I'd read
> >>>>> enough on this group about how to handle the boat in windier
> >>>>> conditions – I wanted to put some of that knowledge to the test.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I was single-handing the boat and motored out of the marina and down
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Potomac to where I usually head for the center of the river before
> >>>>> killing the engine, hauling it up and unfurling the main.  Before I
> >>>>> killed the engine, I noted that the water was choppy, but there were
> >>>>> no white caps.  I resolved to myself that if I began to see white
> >>>>> caps, I'd head home.  I pointed into the wind, killed the engine,
> >>>>> hauled the engine up and only let out a little less than half of the
> >>>>> main (having read so many posts on this group about being conservative
> >>>>> in windier weather) and it almost immediately got out of my control.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The boat swerved into a beam reach and began tipping over, so I let
> >>>>>> out
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> the main sheet to try and keep the mainsail from tipping me over.
> >>>>> Right then I noticed that white caps had appeared (great timing on my
> >>>>> part).  The clew and the foot of the main sail was thrashing around,
> >>>>> with a good amount of airspace between the clew and the boom.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> As an aside, I've never quite understood what is supposed to keep
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> foot of the sail close to the boom besides just securing the sheet.
> >>>>> In these stronger winds, the main was actively pulling away from the
> >>>>> boom.  Am I perhaps missing some key component to keep the bottom/foot
> >>>>> of the main sail in tighter proximity to the boom?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Because I had let out the main sheet to try and control the heeling,
> >>>>>> I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> could not reach the line to furl the mainsail back into the mast.  The
> >>>>> line was out over the water.  So I was having to try and pull the boom
> >>>>> back into the cockpit to get a grip on the furling sheet 
 which, of
> >>>>> course, led to more heeling.  And when I pulled on the line to furl
> >>>>> the main, it wouldn't furl.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> And, most disturbingly, with so much wind filling the small amount
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> the main that was out, I just couldn't furl the sail.  It wouldn't
> >>>>> budge.  I also noticed that more of the main seemed to be inching out.
> >>>>> I thought I had secured the main so it wouldn't further unfurl, but I
> >>>>> don't remember if I had and I don't remember checking it in all the
> >>>>> hullabaloo.  It never fully unfurled, thank goodness, so maybe I had
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> secured it to some degree.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Anyway, every time I tried to point the boat into the wind, it
> >>>>>> didn't
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> help give me more slack to furl the main.  It was noisy as hell, of
> >>>>> course, which I expected.  But I didn't get the slackness necessary to
> >>>>> furl the main.  And the boat didn't want to stay pointed into the
> >>>>> wind, which I found a little surprising.  I thought sailboats, when
> >>>>> pointed into the wind, stayed there.  But I guess I learned otherwise
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> today!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> I eventually put the motor back in the water, cranked it up and
> >>>>>> powered
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> into the wind.  The swells had increased to the point that the engine
> >>>>> was coming up out of the water on every swell, but at least I was
> >>>>> seeming to make progress.  I then somehow pulled hard enough on the
> >>>>> furling line to be able to furl the main.  I don't know how I did it,
> >>>>> but I did.  At this point, I noticed that my tiller to engine linkage
> >>>>> was not working.  The 8hp Mercury motor I have only has one latch to
> >>>>> hold the cowling onto the engine and it was failing with the severe
> >>>>> pressure on the cowling, and the cowling was being ripped off the
> >>>>> engine.  I had to use the engine tiller to point the motor.  I tried
> >>>>> to disengage the linkage, but in the frenzy of the moment, I wasn't
> >>>>> able to do that.  So I just continued steering by using both the boat's
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> tiller and the engine's tiller.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> I eventually made it closer to the shore where the wind wasn't as
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> severe, and was able to disengage the tiller linkage and made it back
> >>>>> to the dock.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> So here are my questions:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1) First, the most basic question -- whenever I go out on 5 knot
> >>>>>> days, I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> make little progress on the water.  And if 15-20 knot days are too
> >>>>> much, it seems a narrow window indeed that I am able to sail in.  Is
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> this
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> the case?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>  Is the R-22 a boat that should only go out in 10-12 knot winds in
> >>>>> order to best enjoy it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> 2) What should I have done differently when the half unfurled main
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> immediately got out of my control?  Should I have steered the boat
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> DOWNwind?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>  Would it have been easier to furl the main if I had done that?  Or is
> >>>>> steering the boat INTO the wind and the chop the right thing to do?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> 3) Is there something I should be doing differently so that the clew
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> the mainsail doesn't get pulled so far away from the boom in windy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> weather?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>  It seemed very loose and uncontrollable.  This was one of the two
> >>>>> most disconcerting parts of the experience (the other being the
> >>>>> inability to furl the main).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> 4) In a worst case scenario where I can't furl the main (especially
> >>>>>> if
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> it's fully unfurled) in strong winds, should I just try to motor to
> >>>>> shore with the main flapping away and catching wind?  I didn't know in
> >>>>> the situation I was in if the imperative is to a) try and furl the
> >>>>> main first or
> >>>>> b) to just get myself out of the windy area of the river even if it
> >>>>> means motoring with the main unfurled.  I was afraid that if I tried
> >>>>> to do option b, that the boat could tip over if I was going in a
> >>>>> direction that was putting the main into a position to be able to tip
> >>>>> the boat.  In retrospect, I'm now thinking that it's possible to motor
> >>>>> with the main unfurled, as long as the main sheet is fully out and
> >>>>> allowing the main to go wherever it wants to go.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> 5) Has anyone else with the tiller/engine linkage had a similar
> >>>>>> problem
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> in strong wind situations?  The cowling only has the one latch on the
> >>>>> back of the engine (furthest astern) and this one latch was clearly a
> >>>>> weak point in situations of stress on the linkage.  If I'm going to be
> >>>>> relying on this linkage in bad weather conditions, do any of you have
> >>>>> any advice on where and how I can get more latches put on my cowling?
> >>>>> OR should I not attempt to use the linkage in stronger winds?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> 6) What should be the role of the motor in these situations?  Is it
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> first thing to engage to get the boat pointed in a particular
> >>>>> direction?  Or is it the last thing to resort to?  Should I be able to
> >>>>> furl the main without using the engine?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I have to tell you, it was very disconcerting to have trouble
> >>>>>> furling
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> the mainsail.  I have loved the innermast furling main up until this
> >>>>> point 
 but pulling with all my might on the line was doing nothing.
> >>>>> It just refused to budge.  I still don't know quite how I was able to
> >>>>> get it finally furled.  It must have had something to do with engaging
> >>>>> the motor in the process, but I don't know for sure.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> For anyone out there who is reading this and considering purchasing
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> R-22, please know that I think this is a marvelous boat.  The
> >>>>> inner-furling mast is something that I've been very happy with up
> >>>>> until today and perhaps it's all a function of this being too much
> >>>>> wind for the boat.  Or too much wind for me, a relatively inexperienced
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> sailor.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> I don't know for sure the best way to learn how to sail in weather
> >>>>>> like
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> this 
 especially if I feel I have to go back to the dock as soon as
> >>>>> there are white caps.  Maybe there is someone out there who is
> >>>>> experienced in this sort of weather AND knows the R-22 who can tutor
> >>>>> me on-board in just this sort of weather, but finding that person
> >>>>> would not be easy.  But I am ready for any and all suggestions.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks for reading this very long email and I look forward to any
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> all advice 
 including "stay the hell out of 20 knot wind weather."
> >>>>> Maybe that's the root of the problem, but it seems easy to imagine
> >>>>> that going out in a 10 knot day could easily turn into a 20 knot day
> >>>>> with gusts in no time at all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks everyone,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Mark P.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ____________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>> ____ More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> http://webmail.aol.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> David Bradley
> >>>>> +1.206.234.3977
> >>>>> dwbrad at gmail.com
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>
> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> 2/16/2008
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> 2:16 PM
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1287 - Release Date:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> 2/19/2008
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> 10:55 AM
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> --
> >>> Herb Parsons
> >>> S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
> >>> S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
> >>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list

-- 
Robert Skinner  "Squirrel Haven" 
Gorham, Maine         04038-1331
s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."

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